Trespassers Leeds, 30/05/19

thejuggler · 30 May 2019

I have not read anything from official sources about someone being chained to the bridge.

The fact is a distressed person on a footbridge only has to decide the footbridge parapet will be a good place to go and sit - a few feet below the bridge is the OHL equipment. First job turn off the supply - that's every electric unit on the Aire Valley and Wakefield routes halted so even thinking about keeping services running is impossible as lines are blocked.

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LowLevel · 30 May 2019

thejuggler said:
I have not read anything from official sources about someone being chained to the bridge.

The fact is a distressed person on a footbridge only has to decide the footbridge parapet will be a good place to go and sit - a few feet below the bridge is the OHL equipment. First job turn off the supply - that's every electric unit on the Aire Valley and Wakefield routes halted so even thinking about keeping services running is impossible as lines are blocked.

You might not have but plenty of us who have access to such sources have.

gimmea50anyday · 30 May 2019

Please read through the entire thread as official sources have been quoted

johntea · 30 May 2019

Luckily I didn't get stuck on a train and have just worked from home all morning...I was going to attempt heading in around lunch but now the disruption is potentially going on until 4PM so think I'll stay here and watch Bargain Hunt and Tipping Point instead!

It looks as if station staff were handing out free bottled water...wonder if it was from that stash that seems to have been under the Platform 1-8 stairs for what seems like a lifetime!

Mojo · 30 May 2019

Bantamzen said:
Presumably because it was being treated as a serious incident by the Police, and they wanted crowds as far away as possible from the scene.

I would hope, that the reason was because of some operational reason like needing to switch off overhead power, or the location of the person meaning that it would be too easy for them to become in contact with any moving train.

I was not there so cannot comment further, but Network Rail as an organisation are not particularly good at managing incidents like this when it comes to asking emergency services to implement a proportionate response.

gimmea50anyday · 30 May 2019

The OHLE was switched off.

Bantamzen · 30 May 2019

Mojo said:
I would hope, that the reason was because of some operational reason like needing to switch off overhead power, or the location of the person meaning that it would be too easy for them to become in contact with any moving train.

I was not there so cannot comment further, but Network Rail as an organisation are not particularly good at managing incidents like this when it comes to asking emergency services to implement a proportionate response.

Sadly it could be something as simple as wanting to keep the gawkers away. Not too long since near Quarry Hill a unfortunate soul was threatening to take his life off a bridge over the A64, and the Police could be seen having to push growing crowds filming it on their mobiles further & further back. Apparently some were even goading this poor bloke to jump, so I imagine the Police just decided to take extreme measures to prevent this.

gimmea50anyday · 30 May 2019

That is entirely and perfectly plausible.

Not like the railway for rumour, but it has been mentioned the individual, while chained to the bridge fell and was suspended by his own shackles causing him to hang dangerously from the bridge. It is not known wether this is what really happened or the extent of any injury caused

BC · 30 May 2019

I never even went near the rails today and got caught in the bus chaos as everyone that could abandoned trains on the outskirts and overloaded the buses coming into Leeds... Since there was no road accidents I presumed it was a problem at the station and it seems to be fairly epic. Thanks to all those sensible people on here posting info - I gave up on the bus and walked down teh canal in the end

Neptune · 30 May 2019

The OHLE was definitely switched off as my line light dropped out for a good hour or so. They re-energised certain sections around 0900 to get trains moving into the bay platforms and Network Rail & Northern staff ushered passengers straight out of the gate by platform 1 as the station was still officially evacuated.

Chaos is a mild way of putting it. I left work about 2 hours ago and there were still very few train movements. The messroom was chocka though.

BC · 30 May 2019

We have had a big meeting of everyon in Leeds they are all going on masse to York to get back to London now. I hope the ticketing is looked at favourably as it'll be a very odd route via Wakefield from York! I think that Leeds departures are more normal(ish) now....

ashkeba · 30 May 2019

Bearclaw said:
Thanks to all those sensible people on here posting info - I gave up on the bus and walked down teh canal in the end

Try the towpath next time. It'll be drier

I just had to balance out the sensible...

30907 · 30 May 2019

asharpe said:
Just been dumped at apperly bridge. Not the most convenient place to cancel a train.

As was I. The ( excellent) guard wasn't best pleased with the decision, after getting a green at Shipley. Word was that the incident had been upgraded to major in between. Train was to work forward to App Jn and reverse.
People were asking him about RRBs - but most headed off by car / on foot.

BC · 30 May 2019

Time was there used to be so much junk on the canals you could walk on the water and stay dry

I did pass some blocked in diesels on the way and a stranded and depressed electric set just outside the station. When they kill the OHLE how far does it go - obviously everything close in to the station goes off but being 25kV I imagine that takes out a rather large section of the line - would this kill off Wakefield as well for example? How large - or rather small a section could they isolate? I presume that they'd hit the emergency button and tehn reconfigure it afterwards in a more considered manner...?

gazzaa2 · 30 May 2019

thejuggler said:
I have not read anything from official sources about someone being chained to the bridge.

The fact is a distressed person on a footbridge only has to decide the footbridge parapet will be a good place to go and sit - a few feet below the bridge is the OHL equipment. First job turn off the supply - that's every electric unit on the Aire Valley and Wakefield routes halted so even thinking about keeping services running is impossible as lines are blocked.

It's a concern how easy it is to bring the whole network to a halt.

That's twice this week trains have ground to a halt for several hours due to a person in distress eventually being talked down (Paddington the other day). Both caused probably more disruption than if it would have been a typical one under.

The good news is both survived.

Mathew S · 30 May 2019

Grumpy said:
If, as suggested above, someone is chained to the footbridge above platform 8, why did the entire station need to be closed down? Did he have a bomb or something?
I had to drive my wife into Leeds for a medical appointment, which was not a problem, but this sort of disruption may have had major effects on people's lives. Not just the simple frustrations of being late for work or losing a holiday because a flight was missed, but such as critical medical appointments/operations missed, job interviews etc.

Because dealing with that kind of situation the last thing you need is thousands of public gawpers, and potentially hecklers, making the poor guy feel even worse than he already must have been. Get everyone out, turn off the announcements, create as calm a situation as possible, and take as much time as needed to resolve the situation positively. There are always alternatives for journeys (buses, taxis, etc.) and I'm sure in extremis staff will have done everything they could to help, but saving the guys life comes first.

Master29 · 30 May 2019

mallard said:
It's now been reported by the BBC.

I do hope that this sentence in the article is a misunderstanding:

What criteria could railway staff possibly use to decide whether a passenger's journey is "absolutely necessary"? What authority do they have to make that distinction? Personally, when I'm using the railway my reason for travelling is my business alone and only I can make the determination as to whether it's "absolutely necessary" or not.

I think what they probably mean is to use your own judgement as to whether your journey is necessary or not. You`ve just done that with your last sentence.

Zamracene749 · 30 May 2019

How does it work with a northern rail day ranger? I'm at Chesterfield, I need to get back to Blackpool but my 18.55 train is cancelled and the next one is seriously late and won't get me back within my ticket validity. ?

Neptune · 30 May 2019

Grumpy said:
If, as suggested above, someone is chained to the footbridge above platform 8, why did the entire station need to be closed down? Did he have a bomb or something?
I had to drive my wife into Leeds for a medical appointment, which was not a problem, but this sort of disruption may have had major effects on people's lives. Not just the simple frustrations of being late for work or losing a holiday because a flight was missed, but such as critical medical appointments/operations missed, job interviews etc.

As someone who was there this morning I can tell you that this person was extremely agitated. The only way for the police negotiators to deal with it was absolute calm. The west end footbridge can have anything to 150 people jostling for space on it going in either direction. The police had to cordon off the area and made the decision to (quite rightly in my opinion) evacuate the whole station to prevent the situation escalating. In the first instance the OHLE had to turned off as he was initially dangling his legs over the bridge.

When some trains were allowed to arrive into the station to alleviate the queues it was still under evacuation so they were quickly moved from the train straight out of the gate by platform 1 keeping them away from the area. Staff were not allowed into the area either as BTP had a lockdown.

Yes it was an inconvenience to thousands of people but thankfully the situation was eventually brought to an end without injury or worse still, loss of life. Stations are not evacuated for no good reason and it is down to the experts to assess any situation and decide the best course of action to resolve this. People being late is not a consideration when there is a serious threat to life whether it be one person or many more.

Also despite rumours, no chains were involved which makes the risk infinitely higher.

Darandio · 30 May 2019

beermaddavep said:
How does it work with a northern rail day ranger? I'm at Chesterfield, I need to get back to Blackpool but my 18.55 train is cancelled and the next one is seriously late and won't get me back within my ticket validity. ?

Won't get you back before 4.30am?

Zamracene749 · 30 May 2019

I

Darandio said:
Won't get you back before 4.30am?

I'd rather be in bed by that time

Joking aside, are the press offer day rangers valid after midnight?

Darandio said:
Won't get you back before 4.30am?

Darandio · 30 May 2019

beermaddavep said:
I'd rather be in bed by that time Joking aside, are the press offer day rangers valid after midnight?

Yes, they should be valid until 4.29. I cannot see anything to suggest otherwise.

Zamracene749 · 30 May 2019

Darandio said:
Yes, they should be valid until 4.29. I cannot see anything to suggest otherwise.

Thanks, I was directed to rhe 19.03 XC service to Sheffield with no guarantee of acceptance! Gonna get the 20.14 to Piccadilly, should be back in good time. Thanks again

Ken H · 30 May 2019

Grumpy said:
If, as suggested above, someone is chained to the footbridge above platform 8, why did the entire station need to be closed down? Did he have a bomb or something?
I had to drive my wife into Leeds for a medical appointment, which was not a problem, but this sort of disruption may have had major effects on people's lives. Not just the simple frustrations of being late for work or losing a holiday because a flight was missed, but such as critical medical appointments/operations missed, job interviews etc.

probably had to turn the overhead off. That stops a lot.

talltim · 30 May 2019

Neptune said:
As someone who was there this morning I can tell you that this person was extremely agitated. The only way for the police negotiators to deal with it was absolute calm. The west end footbridge can have anything to 150 people jostling for space on it going in either direction. The police had to cordon off the area and made the decision to (quite rightly in my opinion) evacuate the whole station to prevent the situation escalating. In the first instance the OHLE had to turned off as he was initially dangling his legs over the bridge.

When some trains were allowed to arrive into the station to alleviate the queues it was still under evacuation so they were quickly moved from the train straight out of the gate by platform 1 keeping them away from the area. Staff were not allowed into the area either as BTP had a lockdown.

Yes it was an inconvenience to thousands of people but thankfully the situation was eventually brought to an end without injury or worse still, loss of life. Stations are not evacuated for no good reason and it is down to the experts to assess any situation and decide the best course of action to resolve this. People being late is not a consideration when there is a serious threat to life whether it be one person or many more.

Also despite rumours, no chains were involved which makes the risk infinitely higher.

When doing a risk assessment for how to proceed in situations like this, do they include the possibilities of people detraining and all the dangers this can bring?

muz379 · 31 May 2019

Grumpy said:
If, as suggested above, someone is chained to the footbridge above platform 8, why did the entire station need to be closed down? Did he have a bomb or something?

I am not sure if you are familiar with the layout of Leeds station , but the bridge over platform 8 & 9 is also the main bridge between platforms 9-16 from the concourse , yes there is the bridge at the far end of the platforms and the other entrance to the station which is lesser used but trying to keep the station operating without the main overbridge , and keeping passengers out of view of the ongoing incident would have been impossible and led to dangerous levels of overcrowding on platforms and the other bridge . Of course with the overhead wires being switched off as well there was already going to be massive service disruption which again is another reason to keep people off platforms .

londonmidland · 31 May 2019

I noticed a lot of TOC’s and National Rail use the phrase ‘trespassers/trespass incident’ which lead to quite a few people getting the wrong impression resulting in quite a few ‘inappropriate’ replies.

I would have thought the phrase/reason ‘emergency services dealing with an incident’ would have been more appropriate for this particular incident.

TUC · 31 May 2019

asharpe said:
Just been dumped at apperly bridge. Not the most convenient place to cancel a train.

I do wonder what arrangements are put in place in such circumstances to ensure that passengers needing assistance are not left stranded.

Bantamzen · 31 May 2019

TUC said:
I do wonder what arrangements are put in place in such circumstances to ensure that passengers needing assistance are not left stranded.

For somewhere like Apperley Bridge I would imagine that crews would contact control to arrange road transport?

Gems · 31 May 2019

Firstly. I don't think it is appropriate to comment on the guy who got himself into the situation he did. I rather doubt in his mind the thought, "I'll bring the entire county and beyond to a grinding halt" ever figured. Rumour circulated that he was tempted down by being offered a McDonalds, if that is true, he must have been a very tormented soul indeed.

My issue is with Northern's lack of response to it's train crews. Never in my life have I seen such a massive logistical issue dealt with by such an appalling lack of response. There is something very wrong when you have to rely on 'Open Train Times' to figure out what is happening, and where you are heading. 'Open Train Times' has become my best friend, and most reliable source of information. Northern control has become a sad joke. They have to do better.

On a more positive note I found not most, but all, the passengers on my train to be both understanding and forward thinking. They were most certainly switched on to the situation and didn't expect nose wiping unlike many do on a weekend. I do believe 'Keighley and District' even laid on a extra bus to Leeds due to the overcrowding on their booked service. It was refreshing to witness and made my job far less stressful.
Also Network rail signalers played their part with intelligent use of the GSM-R. Many trains were stopped at stations using GSM-R calls rather than being allowed to blunder on into the middle of nowhere.

So from my point of view things generally worked. Except Northern's end which seemed inept.

Trespassers Leeds, 30/05/19

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