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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

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jingsmonty

jingsmonty

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RLBH said:
I'm assuming there's guard's accomodation elsewhere in the refurbished sets (in the Buffet First?), so no requirement for the TGS. Combine that with a heroic assumption that most people with bikes are going end to end, and here we are.

Of course, I still don't understand why the power car van area can't be made useable at intermediate stations. Fire safety has been quoted, but I suspect it's more likely on the grounds of dwell time and fire safety is a useful cover story. Neither problem is insoluble if anyone actually wants to address it.
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It's to do with passengers not being able to load/unload bikes themselves (as they do now). The power car van doors are a nightmare to open/close. Personally, I don't see why it can't be accessed via the internal gangway door, by the Conductor (even just at certain stations, by prior arrangement only)?

It's ludicrous to have all that space inaccessible & unused
 
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Bletchleyite

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jingsmonty said:
It's to do with passengers not being able to load/unload bikes themselves (as they do now). The power car van doors are a nightmare to open/close. Personally, I don't see why it can't be accessed via the internal gangway door, by the Conductor (even just at certain stations, by prior arrangement only)?

It's ludicrous to have all that space inaccessible & unused
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It isn't beyond the wit of man to replace the door, of course.
 
CC 72100

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TGS office certainly has a window and is lovely. The bunk room on 402,407,408 and 409-series buffet vehicles (this is where someone corrects me about there being no office on these vehicles) isn't; small, no window, smaller desk.

(The above is for 'old' HSTs; I have no idea what the Guard office is like on the refurbished Scotrail ones).
 
jingsmonty

jingsmonty

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CC 72100 said:
TGS office certainly has a window and is lovely. The bunk room on 402,407,408 and 409-series buffet vehicles (this is where someone corrects me about there being no office on these vehicles) isn't; small, no window, smaller desk.

(The above is for 'old' HSTs; I have no idea what the Guard office is like on the refurbished Scotrail ones).
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It's basically a windowless cubicle beside the buffet (in the TGFB).
 
jingsmonty

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Bletchleyite said:
It isn't beyond the wit of man to replace the door, of course.
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That's probably a much bigger job than people realise. Would it be interlocked, for one thing? It would have to be a lockable door, accessed only by the train crew, as there's no way you could let passengers in there to load/unload bikes, there's an MTU engine diagnostics panel, for one thing. Also an emergency brake handle (on power cars numbered up to 43152 anyway). It would have to be a duty undertaken by the Conductor
 
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chuff chuff

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jingsmonty said:
It's basically a windowless cubicle beside the buffet (in the TGFB).
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Yes,think of the G4s and others prison to court vans with individual compartments for the prisoners and your just about there.Except for course the prisoners get a window to let some light in,the tgs isn't that much better but I does go the full width and it has windows.
 
43096

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Highlandspring said:
'Cancelled' - it's a very old telegraph code word*

*as a pedant I should point out that the telegraph code was "Cape" and using it as a verb is a modern misappropriation.
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Technically it is cancelled throughout, isn’t it? Trains terminated short of destination are PINE.
 
43096

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jingsmonty said:
That's probably a much bigger job than people realise. Would it be interlocked, for one thing? It would have to be a lockable door, accessed only by the train crew, as there's no way you could let passengers in there to load/unload bikes, there's an MTU engine diagnostics panel, for one thing. Also an emergency brake handle (on power cars numbered up to 43152 anyway). It would have to be a duty undertaken by the Conductor
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Given that ScotRail haven’t found enough money to give the power cars upgraded electronics, they won’t have enough to fit new van doors, to a completely new design with all the safety accreditations needed.

In any case, as you say, there is the MTU MDEC, brake equipment and OTMR kit in there.
 
jingsmonty

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43096 said:
Given that ScotRail haven’t found enough money to give the power cars upgraded electronics, they won’t have enough to fit new van doors, to a completely new design with all the safety accreditations needed.

In any case, as you say, there is the MTU MDEC, brake equipment and OTMR kit in there.
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Yep, my thoughts too. If the power car van area is going to be used on the Inter7City sets, there'll have to be an agreement for the Conductors to load anything (such as bikes) in it.
 
BRX

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Once there are no slam doors for the conductors to worry about, it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to suggest that one of their duties could be to help load bikes and/or other large luggage into one of the power cars at intermediate stops where necessary (with the other one being reserved for end-end journeys only).
 
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CC 72100 said:
TGS office certainly has a window and is lovely. The bunk room on 402,407,408 and 409-series buffet vehicles (this is where someone corrects me about there being no office on these vehicles) isn't; small, no window, smaller desk.

(The above is for 'old' HSTs; I have no idea what the Guard office is like on the refurbished Scotrail ones).
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Excuse if a daft question but what does TGS stand for? I know it's the power car where the guard sits on XC HSTs like..
 
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CJSwan

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I knew somebody would come back with Trailer. I was told Trailing when I did my training.

So Trailing/Trailer depending on who you’re talking to/who is training you.
 
hexagon789

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CJSwan said:
I knew somebody would come back with Trailer. I was told Trailing when I did my training.

So Trailing/Trailer depending on who you’re talking to/who is training you.
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Trailer because it is a Trailer, it's not a Trailing. Trailing is incorrect because there is no such thing as a Trailing let alone the fact the T stands for Trailer.
 
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CJSwan

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In hindsight I think I’m in the wrong... Haha

I definitely remember thinking it was one, but being told it was the other. However, I can’t remember which I thought it originally was... Ohwell I know now
 
hexagon789

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Inter7City services today:

Aberdeen-Edinburgh - 05:49, 09:04 13:12, 16:02, 20:10
Edinburgh-Aberdeen - 05:30, 09:28, 12:30, 16:28, 19:34
Aberdeen-Glasgow Queen St - 07:35, 13:48, 19:43
Glasgow Queen St-Aberdeen - 10:40, 16:42
 
jingsmonty

jingsmonty

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BRX said:
Once there are no slam doors for the conductors to worry about, it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to suggest that one of their duties could be to help load bikes and/or other large luggage into one of the power cars at intermediate stops where necessary (with the other one being reserved for end-end journeys only).
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Makes sense to me as well. Only thing you'd have to be careful of is that there are a few short platforms (Newtonmore & Dalwhinnie Up platform) to deal with, where the coach next to the power car may not actually be on the platform. However, there's bike storage space on the coach as well (where a toilet has been removed). Not an insurmountable issue though.

Apologies to any Conductors on this forum who think we're trying to dump extra duties on them, by the way:smile: - I used to be a conductor myself, so I appreciate the hassle this may cause. However, I can also see the hassle which you'll have to deal with if the storage space on the Inter7City sets is going to be as ridiculously constrained as it seems to be too...
 
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Northhighland said:
Seems about half the sets are not in daily service. You can be certain that lease payments are still being made. Seems shambolic that so many are not working and how come it seems common for refurb sets to develop faults either before leaving Doncaster or on arrival in Scotland.

Why run HST from Inverness to Inverurie and not from Inverness to Glasgow Edinburgh? Public will run out of patience with this. Management of this project is beyond woeful.
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The public have already run out of patience many decades ago. Hence the huge pressure to dual the A9 and zero pressure to dual the HML. The railway is at least 40-50 years behind other similar lines in other parts of Europe and with little chance of electrification, clapped out stock and a poor service coupled with outdated thinking, it's not going to change any time soon.
 
jingsmonty

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Highland37 said:
The public have already run out of patience many decades ago. Hence the huge pressure to dual the A9 and zero pressure to dual the HML. The railway is at least 40-50 years behind other similar lines in other parts of Europe and with little chance of electrification, clapped out stock and a poor service coupled with outdated thinking, it's not going to change any time soon.
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This isn't really relevant to this thread - going a bit off topic here
 
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Highland37 said:
The public have already run out of patience many decades ago. Hence the huge pressure to dual the A9 and zero pressure to dual the HML. The railway is at least 40-50 years behind other similar lines in other parts of Europe and with little chance of electrification, clapped out stock and a poor service coupled with outdated thinking, it's not going to change any time soon.
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I agree with your points, on a wider sense the HML should be invested in to improve both passenger and freight capacity. We should have an hourly service to the central belt as a minimum. This can be achieved with HST though and living in the here and now it is the attitude of Scotrail towards HML customers that grates. The thinking in Scotrail is just not focused on the passenger at all.

To stand on a packed 170 coming out of Haymarket and see several HST's lying doing nothing costing money is simply sticking two fingers up to passengers. To get the public to see the advantage of investment in rail they have to make the current investment, however inadequate it is work. Standing on Inverness platform watching an HST head off to Inverurie while waiting to board a two coach 158 for Edinburgh is simply not selling the advantages of rail travel by any stretch of the imagination.

the management of this transition to HST is simply woeful.
 
Highlandspring

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InOban said:
The delivery path was to Perth. Surprised it's still there.
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HA22 is still at Perth Carriage Sidings today, both powercars failed with flat batteries and can't be started. A pair of back to back PCs ran to Perth yesterday and today are being used to attempt to jump start the knackered PCs. If this fails apparently they'll haul the set to Inverness on the long bar.
 
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chuff chuff

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Highlandspring said:
HA22 is still at Perth Carriage Sidings today, both powercars failed with flat batteries and can't be started. A pair of back to back PCs ran to Perth yesterday and today are being used to attempt to jump start the knackered PCs. If this fails apparently they'll haul the set to Inverness on the long bar.
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Mmmmmmmmmmm pretty much sums up the whole project.
 
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