Interview Under Caution Queries?

Hi,

I'm new here and was wondering if I could get some insight into my situation? Basically, I was coming home from work from Bourne End - Furze Platt but had neglected to buy a train ticket before had as I simply forgot. Once on board I was asked to show my ticket and once I was unable to produce one the ticket collector ushered over someone else (I think he was a Revenue Protection Inspector or Officer?). He asked for ID, I didn't have any on me but used my debit card as proof of ID which he appeared to accept. He took my name, date of birth and looked me up in the revenue system to see my registered address etc, and I complied with everything. I'm not quite sure what happened next however.

From what I can tell, I wasn't issued with a Penalty Fare Notice but I think he interviewed me under caution. I should note that I did give consent before he did anything else to answer any questions. I was then shown his ID, he did the 'right to remain silent etc' spiel which I agreed to etc. He was however unable to ask me any questions as I had to get off the train for my stop (The total journey is 7 minutes so very quick journey) but this did not seem to be an issue as I mentioned that I would not be able to answer the questions as my stop was coming up which the officer seemed to accept when I was asked. I got off the train without any issue, but it was only after getting off the train that I realised there was no mention of a Penalty Fare Issue or a Notice. There was someone else in the same coach as me also receiving a fine (Fare skipping happens a lot on this journey) but I overheard them being told the amount of the fine (£20). What was told to me was that I would receive a letter and to follow the details in the letter.

My questions are:
1. Should I be concerned that I wasn't issued a Penalty Fare Notice on the train journey or that any fines were not mentioned?
2. Was I interviewed under caution? And if I was what should I expect from the letter?
3. Do I need to be concerned about it escalating to court via the Prosecutions Department? According to the GWR Revenue Protection Policy if interviewed under caution a letter will be send to Prosecution Department who will then contact me in writing?
4. Do I need to be worried about anything appearing on my criminal record?

The fare was £3.50 and the Penalty Fare would have been £20 so it does seem a bit absurd to me that I would be taken to court or jailed etc, but thought best to check.

Thank you.

ellhunt98 said:

1. Should I be concerned that I wasn't issued a Penalty Fare Notice on the train journey or that any fines were not mentioned?

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It's likely that this will now cost you more to resolve than it would have done if you had been issued with a Penalty Fare, and it is possible that you may be prosecuted. However, that cannot be changed any more - a Penalty Fare cannot retrospectively be issued. It's not surprising that fines weren't mentioned - many people become less cooperative when this is done!

ellhunt98 said:

2. Was I interviewed under caution? And if I was what should I expect from the letter?

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If you were told that you did not have to say anything etc. then yes, this was likely an interview under caution. You will probably receive a letter which states that someone giving your details was stopped after not having a ticket, and that they are now asking for your version of events to determine whether to prosecute.

ellhunt98 said:

3. Do I need to be concerned about it escalating to court via the Prosecutions Department? According to the GWR Revenue Protection Policy if interviewed under caution a letter will be send to Prosecution Department who will then contact me in writing?

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We yes, it is more serious and likely more expensive than disposal via a Penalty Fare. But there's nothing that can be done about that now any more.

ellhunt98 said:

4. Do I need to be worried about anything appearing on my criminal record?

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You're not suddenly going to acquire a criminal record without warning (provided you gave them your right address). However, depending on how this pans out, a criminal conviction is a possibility.

ellhunt98 said:

The fare was £3.50 and the Penalty Fare would have been £20 so it does seem a bit absurd to me that I would be taken to court or jailed etc, but thought best to check.

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It might seem absurd but prosecutions are regularly conducted for small amounts of unpaid fares. The train companies attempt to justify this approach (unsuccessfully in my view!) by explaining that fare evasion costs however many million each year. This is beyond an awful comparison but the logic or morality of it doesn't come into it.

"Luckily" prison is not legally possible for a first-time offence, and in practice the sentencing guidelines for any offence dictate that committal (prison) is to be a last resort, reserved solely for repeat offenders in aggravating circumstances. If you are prosecuted and convicted, a fine of somewhere between 50-150% your weekly income, plus costs, is the most likely outcome.

This would have been GWR, which is a company that applies more common sense than others. If this is the first time anything like this has happened and you are co-operative you should have no problem settling out-of-court if that is your preference. GWR Policy

Have you ever come to the attention of the railway before? By that, I mean have you ever had your details taken or received a penalty fare or similar.

Also, how often do you make the journey? If you make the journey four or more times in a week, then you will be as well getting a season for £14.80 a week. Seasons for a month or more are also available at a greater discount. This will prevent forgetting to buy a day ticket again, and whilst not helping you defend any case against you, will demonstrate that you have changed your ways and are unlikely to offend again.

ellhunt98 said:

I simply forgot.

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As they would have up to six months to start a prosecution, it may be some time before you hear from them - this includes if they want to offer a settlement.

So it might be a good idea to note down what led to you forgetting, and anything relevant that you might have said to the staff or the inspector (despite the fact that he didn't have time to ask formal questions).

Could you say more about circumstances of you forgetting, or other information that might be relevant?

For example, is the reason you didn't have a return that you used another mode of transport to go to work, and perhaps often do?

If you usually take the train, do you have a card statement showing payments for many journeys?

ellhunt98 said:

but had neglected to buy a train ticket before had as I simply forgot.

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How the hell can someone simply forget to buy a ticket. ???

malc-c said:

How the hell can someone simply forget to buy a ticket. ???

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Because they are distracted, stressed, forgetful, doing something else, any number of other reasons...
You could also ask 'how can someone leave home and forget their keys?' But people do - I've done that as well, but at least you don't get prosecuted for it.

tony_mac said:

Because they are distracted, stressed, forgetful, doing something else, any number of other reasons...
You could also ask 'how can someone leave home and forget their keys?' But people do - I've done that as well, but at least you don't get prosecuted for it.

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Or it's the most convenient excuse when caught without a ticket.......

Darandio said:

Or it's the most convenient excuse when caught without a ticket.......

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That was obviously the implication of the question.
But I can assure people that it does happen anyway - and I wasn't caught!

On another occasion, I had not bought a ticket because the ticket office was closed. Only after trying the wrong ticket, and a couple of minutes at the barrier, looking through all my pockets, did I remember that the ticket office was closed. That may seem even more unlikely to the cynical, but it still happened. (The RPI was obviously a little wary when I remembered, but was quite nice about it).

tony_mac said:

Because they are distracted, stressed, forgetful, doing something else, any number of other reasons...
You could also ask 'how can someone leave home and forget their keys?' But people do - I've done that as well, but at least you don't get prosecuted for it.

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Yeah, but that's different, at most stations you either have to walk past the booking / ticket office or a row of ticketing machines, and lets be fair, its fairly common knowledge that train travel isn't free. The OP also comments that he was travelling home from work. From that I would suggest that he has travelled by train before an would know a ticket is needed before travel.

Darandio said:

Or it's the most convenient excuse when caught without a ticket.......

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This is probably more likely. There are a lot of posts where people have been caught through a technicality, such as travelling at peak time with an off-peak ticket, or similar. But in such a case they have actually purchased a ticket. Maybe (and I'm not making a direct accusation, just a generalisation) the the same excuse has been used before and it was dealt with by a penalty ticket, but on this occasion didn't get away with it and is now facing a possible fine and prosecution ?

ellhunt98 said:

Basically, I was coming home from work from Bourne End - Furze Platt but had neglected to buy a train ticket before had as I simply forgot.

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Perhaps it's now different as there's a (card only) machine at Marlow, but my experience of the line as an occasional off peak traveller was that the guard would come round selling tickets. That's notwithstanding the presence of machines at Bourne End and Cookham.

some bloke said:

For example, is the reason you didn't have a return that you used another mode of transport to go to work, and perhaps often do?

?

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To the OP: You state that you were coming home - did you make your journey in the morning by train, in which case, why didn't you buy a return ticket? This will need to be clarified when you make your statement to GWR or else there may be an assumption that you didn't buy a ticket in the morning as well and may be seen as a habitual offender, rather than be treated as a one-off incident.

malc-c said:

Yeah, but that's different, at most stations you either have to walk past the booking / ticket office or a row of ticketing machines

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It is still possible to forget to buy a ticket; I have done it myself, despite having remembered on several hundred occasions before. However, it doesn't change anything either way, and this section of the forum is to try and help, not to make accusations.

“this section of the forum is to try and help, not to make accusations”

I agree with this 100%. We all forget to perform a trivial task every now and then, in this instance the OP forgot to buy a ticket. It doesn’t solicit the uncalled for accusations circulating in this thread.

I suggest, if it is a possible avenue, to settle this before it reaches a court summons. Also try to note any events in the lead up to you alighting the train.

tony_mac said:

It is still possible to forget to buy a ticket; I have done it myself, despite having remembered on several hundred occasions before. However, it doesn't change anything either way, and this section of the forum is to try and help, not to make accusations.

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@ellhunt98 if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Otherwise I don't think there is anything else for anyone to add, other than what has already been posted.

glasgowtripper said:

“this section of the forum is to try and help, not to make accusations”

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Agreed. If anyone wishes to stick the boot in and/or make accusations, then please don't post.

If someone feels a poster does not deserve help, no-one is making them provide it, so the best thing to do is say nothing.

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