GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

irish_rail · 27 May 2019

No my point is that some services will need to be 9 or 10 car come December in Cornwall. The 1000 off Penzance being one of them.

RailUK Forums

irish_rail · 27 May 2019

Oh and how many people actually travel London to Hereford compared with the amount that actually travel London to Plymouth.....hardly a fair comparison , not to mention Plymouth being about 5 times the size of Hereford!

Envoy · 27 May 2019

Just saw 1L71 arrive in Cardiff this afternoon at 15.30 - absolutely rammed 5 coach train arrived from Swansea full of Spice Girls fans arriving for the show this evening. Hoards were boarding for heading east. Reported full & standing on arrival at Bristol Parkway. Did no one tell GWR management that the Spice Girls were playing at the Principality Stadium? It is appalling that now the whole fleet have arrived that we still have 5 coach trains running around that can’t cope with demand.

(1V09 Cross Country from Nottingham also arrived rammed as a 2 Coach train. I see that the following XC from Nottingham is also 2 coaches. Incredible given the thousands heading for Cardiff).

father_jack · 27 May 2019

0717 Bristol TM Swansea was cancelled today, no driver, which left the 0829 and 0929 Swansea Paddington to be worked as single 5 cars and presumably with driver resources still at a premium they've not got around to balancing up again.

PHILIPE · 27 May 2019

Envoy said:
Just saw 1L71 arrive in Cardiff this afternoon at 15.30 - absolutely rammed 5 coach train arrived from Swansea full of Spice Girls fans arriving for the show this evening. Hoards were boarding for heading east. Reported full & standing on arrival at Bristol Parkway. Did no one tell GWR management that the Spice Girls were playing at the Principality Stadium? It is appalling that now the whole fleet have arrived that we still have 5 coach trains running around that can’t cope with demand.

(1V09 Cross Country from Nottingham also arrived rammed as a 2 Coach train. I see that the following XC from Nottingham is also 2 coaches. Incredible given the thousands heading for Cardiff).

In the good old puff puff days there was spare stock and locos and crews available to cope with events but now in current franchising times no allowances are made to manage such events so TOCs just have to do the best they can with nothing additional so blame the Government not the TOCs who have to take all the flak..

Envoy · 27 May 2019

PHILIPE said:
In the good old puff puff days there was spare stock and locos and crews available to cope with events but now in current franchising times no allowances are made to manage such events so TOCs just have to do the best they can with nothing additional so blame the Government not the TOCs who have to take all the flak..

Well, perhaps in the good old puff puff days, it was the locomotive that was the big expense and the coaches were much cheaper relatively speaking, than the powered coaches we have today. I find it incredible that no ‘spare’ drivers exist. If my doctor is ill, a locum usually shows up. Schools have lists of supply teachers to call upon.

PHILIPE · 27 May 2019

Envoy said:
Well, perhaps in the good old puff puff days, it was the locomotive that was the big expense and the coaches were much cheaper relatively speaking, than the powered coaches we have today. I find it incredible that no ‘spare’ drivers exist. If my doctor is ill, a locum usually shows up. Schools have lists of supply teachers to call upon.

Everything down to the bare bones now as it is all about cost

irish_rail · 27 May 2019

5 car off Plymouth on 1a96 absolutely w3dged due to coupling issues, gonna be a long way to London for those poor people.
The 5 car experiment failed with virgin and it's rapidly failing again. History repeating itself....

VT 390 · 27 May 2019

irish_rail said:
5 car off Plymouth on 1a96 absolutely w3dged due to coupling issues, gonna be a long way to London for those poor people.
The 5 car experiment failed with virgin and it's rapidly failing again. History repeating itself....

Which service is 1A96?

irish_rail · 27 May 2019

VT 390 said:
Which service is 1A96?

1445 Penzance to Paddington

VT 390 · 27 May 2019

irish_rail said:
1445 Penzance to Paddington

Thank You

Goldfish62 · 27 May 2019

irish_rail said:
5 car off Plymouth on 1a96 absolutely w3dged due to coupling issues, gonna be a long way to London for those poor people.
The 5 car experiment failed with virgin and it's rapidly failing again. History repeating itself....

My thoughts exactly.

Clarence Yard · 28 May 2019

irish_rail said:
5 car off Plymouth on 1a96 absolutely w3dged due to coupling issues, gonna be a long way to London for those poor people.
The 5 car experiment failed with virgin and it's rapidly failing again. History repeating itself....

Not comparable. The Virgin timetable was based on (4 and) 5 cars throughout on core services, not because of coupling issues with the units which, in this case, are due to be load 10.

The GWR parallel was the introduction of Turbos when there were initial coupling issues, some because of driver unfamiliarly, some because of unit coupler issues but most because the track was all over the place. On Chiltern NSE mainly sorted it before introduction but on the Western (because the infrastructure was mainly IC) it has to be done after introduction. Paddington was the worst to sort. From the turbo clearance data, the tracks in Plymouth station look to be in a poor state so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some issues there.

I have no doubt it will get better as time goes on.

irish_rail · 28 May 2019

But come december what is going to happen to the 35 9 car sets? Bristol at 4 trains per hour will only need 5 cars, most Cotswold only need 5s, same with the Bedwyns , once Cheltenham is hourly that will only justify 5s so other than the swansea route I really can't see what the 9 cars are going to be doing all day other than no doubt languishing at north pole in between the peaks. Hardly the best use of resources......make far more sense to use them on the Penzances , and thus simplify the crewing on that route plus make life easier for passengers.

VT 390 · 28 May 2019

irish_rail said:
But come december what is going to happen to the 35 9 car sets? Bristol at 4 trains per hour will only need 5 cars, most Cotswold only need 5s, same with the Bedwyns , once Cheltenham is hourly that will only justify 5s so other than the swansea route I really can't see what the 9 cars are going to be doing all day other than no doubt languishing at north pole in between the peaks. Hardly the best use of resources......make far more sense to use them on the Penzances , and thus simplify the crewing on that route plus make life easier for passengers.

I think the Bristol via Bath Spa will need to be 9 carriages not 5 carriages.

Clarence Yard · 28 May 2019

irish_rail said:
But come december what is going to happen to the 35 9 car sets? Bristol at 4 trains per hour will only need 5 cars, most Cotswold only need 5s, same with the Bedwyns , once Cheltenham is hourly that will only justify 5s so other than the swansea route I really can't see what the 9 cars are going to be doing all day other than no doubt languishing at north pole in between the peaks. Hardly the best use of resources......make far more sense to use them on the Penzances , and thus simplify the crewing on that route plus make life easier for passengers.

4 TPH Bristol will only need 5 cars - no, please! That is severe overcrowding on a lot of services, especially on the stopper via Bath. The long shoulder peaks on all routes require more than load 5 and there are some off peaks on and off the North Cots that are also heavy loaders. You don't get enough 9 car units free for long enough between peaks to go all 9 on the Penzance runs, even if Long Rock could cope with them.

Out of the 35 9 car sets, you only get 17 of the 800 and 11 (12 in summer) of the 802 sets daily and they will be fully deployed, as far as the TARA maintenance requirements let you. As well as that, GWR doesn't have free enjoyment over the deployment of the 800 sets.

If you want to go all 9 car on the W of E, the only option is to lengthen sets and do something about Penzance stabling.

Goldfish62 · 2 Jun 2019

On Friday the 0900 from Penzance was 5 vice 9. Full and standing from Truro and the police were called to the train at Plymouth.

Anyone still think five coaches through Cornwall is sufficient on all trains?

JN114 · 2 Jun 2019

Goldfish62 said:
Anyone still think five coaches through Cornwall is sufficient on all trains?

Don’t think anyone has said it is sufficient on all trains - even for our much maligned Cotswolds correspondent that’s stretching their words somewhat. GWR certainly don’t as the train in question is planned to run as a 9 car.

Dai Corner · 2 Jun 2019

Service patterns and train lengths in Cornwall probably deserve a thread of their own, but since we're here can any frequent travellers tell us what loadings are like on the local trains?

For example, are passengers going for the shiny new 800s and shunning the sprinters?

Goldfish62 · 2 Jun 2019

JN114 said:
Don’t think anyone has said it is sufficient on all trains - even for our much maligned Cotswolds correspondent that’s stretching their words somewhat. GWR certainly don’t as the train in question is planned to run as a 9 car.

It's certainly been suggested/hinted at various times in this thread that Cornwall is such a quiet backwater that 5 cars should be sufficient, end of.

Is there a definitive list of what's supposed to be 5, 9 and 10 cars through Cornwall, both now and planned from the timetable recast in December?

irish_rail · 2 Jun 2019

Believe the 1203 only had the front 5 coaches in use out of Paddington yesterday due to no available front set lead.

jimm · 3 Jun 2019

irish_rail said:
Oh and how many people actually travel London to Hereford compared with the amount that actually travel London to Plymouth.....hardly a fair comparison , not to mention Plymouth being about 5 times the size of Hereford!

What have the passenger numbers at a particular location got to do with it? You were just going on about the journey times.

irish_rail said:
But come december what is going to happen to the 35 9 car sets? Bristol at 4 trains per hour will only need 5 cars, most Cotswold only need 5s, same with the Bedwyns , once Cheltenham is hourly that will only justify 5s so other than the swansea route I really can't see what the 9 cars are going to be doing all day other than no doubt languishing at north pole in between the peaks. Hardly the best use of resources......make far more sense to use them on the Penzances , and thus simplify the crewing on that route plus make life easier for passengers.

"Once Cheltenham is hourly, that will only justify 5s" - yet another daft supposition about how services are being used by passengers somewhere other than the West Country. Rather like the Cotswold Line, the peak services on the line via Stroud are rather busy, and have been hourly in the direction of the main peak flows morning and late afternoon/early evening for years, worked by HSTs before nine-car IETs took over. Even when FGW had all the 180s, they worked the contra-peak trains on the Cheltenham route, as they weren't big enough for the busiest trains.

JN114 said:
Don’t think anyone has said it is sufficient on all trains - even for our much maligned Cotswolds correspondent that’s stretching their words somewhat. GWR certainly don’t as the train in question is planned to run as a 9 car.

I have never suggested any such thing.

Goldfish62 said:
It's certainly been suggested/hinted at various times in this thread that Cornwall is such a quiet backwater that 5 cars should be sufficient, end of.

Is there a definitive list of what's supposed to be 5, 9 and 10 cars through Cornwall, both now and planned from the timetable recast in December?

Why would there be a definitive list, when Network Rail and GWR have yet to agree the final details of the timetable?

The47Wanderer · 3 Jun 2019

jimm said:
"Once Cheltenham is hourly, that will only justify 5s" - yet another daft supposition about how services are being used by passengers somewhere other than the West Country. Rather like the Cotswold Line, the peak services on the line via Stroud are rather busy, and have been hourly in the direction of the main peak flows morning and late afternoon/early evening for years, worked by HSTs before nine-car IETs took over. Even when FGW had all the 180s, they worked the contra-peak trains on the Cheltenham route, as they weren't big enough for the busiest trains.

It's not that Cheltenham is losing all its nine cars, more that there is literally no reason to run hourly nine cars all the way through the day. In the off peak times, they'll be fives, they'll still continue to be 9s or even 10s in the peaks and on the shoulders of the peaks.

CharlesR · 3 Jun 2019

The47Wanderer said:
It's not that Cheltenham is losing all its nine cars, more that there is literally no reason to run hourly nine cars all the way through the day. In the off peak times, they'll be fives, they'll still continue to be 9s or even 10s in the peaks and on the shoulders of the peaks.

10s aren’t practical to be used on the line due to issues around Gloucester. Jimm was talking to the poster who assumed the trains that should be used. I am sure Jimm is completely aware that GWR have somewhat of a degree in common sense and will use 9 cars at peak.

jimm · 4 Jun 2019

The47Wanderer said:
It's not that Cheltenham is losing all its nine cars, more that there is literally no reason to run hourly nine cars all the way through the day. In the off peak times, they'll be fives, they'll still continue to be 9s or even 10s in the peaks and on the shoulders of the peaks.

Charles R's post is an accurate summary of my take on the future operation of the Cheltenham route. I know full well that the peak trains are heavily loaded, same as the Cotswold Line, and need a big train.

The47Wanderer · 4 Jun 2019

jimm said:
Charles R's post is an accurate summary of my take on the future operation of the Cheltenham route. I know full well that the peak trains are heavily loaded, same as the Cotswold Line, and need a big train -

Gotcha, just seemed most were starting to get a bit heated that 5s would be doing the golden valley and as a result, would be leaking passengers they would be that busy!

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

I have never once said I don't believe the Cotswold peaks should be anything except 9 cars. What I disagree with is the off peak use of 9 car sets to Hereford and the likes all the while delays are being accrued at Plymouth consistently due to trouble splitting and joining 5 car sets. How long before passengers down here say enough is enough with the frequent delays and abandon the railways? Forgive me for looking out for the customers who pay my wages ......

CharlesR · 4 Jun 2019

irish_rail said:
I have never once said I don't believe the Cotswold peaks should be anything except 9 cars. What I disagree with is the off peak use of 9 car sets to Hereford and the likes all the while delays are being accrued at Plymouth consistently due to trouble splitting and joining 5 car sets. How long before passengers down here say enough is enough with the frequent delays and abandon the railways? Forgive me for looking out for the customers who pay my wages ......

If the Penzance to Plymouth splitting was working so terribly then some sort of apology or plan would have been publicised. Other than on this forum, I haven’t seen many complaints regarding this (I regularly evaluate @GWRHelp’s twitter) The running of 9 cars up to Hereford off peak could be for many reasons - making it easier to diagram longer trains into the peaks, there could not be any 5 cars available or they want to add a train into the mix in case of any crowding.

The delays of coupling and uncoupling are teething issues which do not justify you having 10 cars running 24/7. At the end of the day, GWR can’t forecast teething issues. Now these faults that passengers will have “enough and enough off” will not be of effect to the ‘average commuter’, many issues regard in terms of the operation of the service, not the fact that the trains split in half at Plymouth.

You are almost contradicting yourself.. Plymouth/Penzance will not be getting 9 cars over a 10 splitting just because it takes a while to do it, not how railway operations work. Clearly, considering you work in the railway, you’d have a knowledge of the basics in diagramming.

irish_rail · 4 Jun 2019

CharlesR said:
If the Penzance to Plymouth splitting was working so terribly then some sort of apology or plan would have been publicised. Other than on this forum, I haven’t seen many complaints regarding this (I regularly evaluate @GWRHelp’s twitter) The running of 9 cars up to Hereford off peak could be for many reasons - making it easier to diagram longer trains into the peaks, there could not be any 5 cars available or they want to add a train into the mix in case of any crowding.

The delays of coupling and uncoupling are teething issues which do not justify you having 10 cars running 24/7. At the end of the day, GWR can’t forecast teething issues. Now these faults that passengers will have “enough and enough off” will not be of effect to the ‘average commuter’, many issues regard in terms of the operation of the service, not the fact that the trains split in half at Plymouth.

You are almost contradicting yourself.. Plymouth/Penzance will not be getting 9 cars over a 10 splitting just because it takes a while to do it, not how railway operations work. Clearly, considering you work in the railway, you’d have a knowledge of the basics in diagramming.

I'm afraid you are showing your ignorance in this post. Presumably you are not a regular traveller in this part of the world.

Envoy · 6 Jun 2019

Wonder if GWR realise that Take That are in Cardiff on Saturday 8 June and whether they will have 5 coach 800’s on the route - as they did a couple of weeks ago when the Spice Girls were in the city?

https://www.principalitystadium.wales/event/take-that-greatest-hits-live-2019/

GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member