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Class 710 LO

greatkingrat

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Yes the LO to Watford Junction route is definitely longer - IIRC takes roughly 45-50 minutes as opposed to 33 minutes to Enfield and 38 minutes to Cheshunt.

Although very few people will travel the whole route from Watford to Euston on the DC, so if you look at the actual average time spent on the train, there probably isn't much difference between the two routes.
 
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Bald Rick

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Well, not so sure about that, it might hold up some freightliners, and some sets of cars coming out/in to/from Orient Way but wouldn't destroy the GE at all. If anything the WAML services terminating in 11/12 at Stratford would be the ones to be disrupted most.

OK. How do you get from Platform 11 to Channelsea Junction without conflicting with the Up Temple Mills (which is the route for all the contra peak down main services in the morning, and a notable fraction of the down main pm peak services)?
 

Bald Rick

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It stops P10A being used in the peaks for Down fast services as P11 and P10A share the same track (and used in opposite directions) west of the platforms. Thus it destroys the GEML peak service...

You got there before me.
 

MrPIC

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I think "destroys" is a little overboard, it could be done if it wanted too with a bit of jiggery pokery.
 

hwl

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I think "destroys" is a little overboard, it could be done if it wanted too with a bit of jiggery pokery.
Moving /modifying most of the OHLE portals in Stratford station for starters to enable the the western approaches to P10A and 11 to be split wouldn't be quick /cheap / easy before any of the signal or track mods.
 

Bald Rick

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I think "destroys" is a little overboard, it could be done if it wanted too with a bit of jiggery pokery.

It’s not overboard. Without complete remodelling of the west end of Stratford and/ or the existing LO platforms, you could not operate any services from the WAML towards the NLL in the peak without cancelling at least the same number of GEML trains, probably more. How is that not destroying the peak?
 

Bikeman78

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All that said though - I still feel shortchanged somewhat from Bush Hill Park and Enfield Town with only a 30-minute frequency in the off peak and on weekends - the 4-car unit I was on today was full and standing by Bruce Grove and the same on the return. I'd love to see an improvement to this when the new trains come, although at least the capacity increase of the new units will be something.
You could fix the four car problem tomorrow. The Saturday and Sunday service requires 11 sets of stock so 22 units if they are all pairs. Plus one the the Upminster shuttle. There are 31 units in the fleet. Weekday peaks 27 of them are booked to work.
 

samuelmorris

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You could fix the four car problem tomorrow. The Saturday and Sunday service requires 11 sets of stock so 22 units if they are all pairs. Plus one the the Upminster shuttle. There are 31 units in the fleet. Weekday peaks 27 of them are booked to work.
Do they not require the lower allocation at weekends to fit in maintenance?
 

Bikeman78

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Surely must have changed because that train was otherwise manic - the 1722 to Cheshunt via Seven Sisters off London Liverpool Street. I can't imagine them getting away with it being a 4.
The 1722 down and 1810 back up now form the 1907 to King's Lynn which is only booked a single 317. Curiously the 1528 to Cambridge North and return are booked eight cars instead. They go on to work the 1856 to Hertford East which is what the 1810 from Cheshunt used to do.
 

Bikeman78

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Do they not require the lower allocation at weekends to fit in maintenance?
Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the spares at stabled at Chingford rather than Ilford. The weekend diagrams are all 315s so most of the spares are 317s whose weekday mileages are low anyway.
 

20atthemagnet

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Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the spares at stabled at Chingford rather than Ilford. The weekend diagrams are all 315s so most of the spares are 317s whose weekday mileages are low anyway.

Incorrect. Over weekends only a couple of units in the sidings at Chingford. Mileages are generally lower 317s but I dont see that being conincidence. We only deploy single 317s unless absolutely necessary ie the isnt a 315 available for that weekend circuit. The only exception to this is football working. Also just because you have units doesn’t mean you’re allowed to invent paths for an increase capacity over weekends, even if the weekday peak works differently with more trains. There are many many many different hoops/obstacles to jump through before something like that is even considered.

Surely must have changed because that train was otherwise manic - the 1722 to Cheshunt via Seven Sisters off London Liverpool Street. I can't imagine them getting away with it being a 4.

Confirmed 4car May-Dec diagrams. GA needing the stock for other services. Stopping patterns remains the same.
 
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MatthewRead

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You could fix the four car problem tomorrow. The Saturday and Sunday service requires 11 sets of stock so 22 units if they are all pairs. Plus one the the Upminster shuttle. There are 31 units in the fleet. Weekday peaks 27 of them are booked to work.
I thought the Upminster shuttle was going to be retaining a 315.
 

MrPIC

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It’s not overboard. Without complete remodelling of the west end of Stratford and/ or the existing LO platforms, you could not operate any services from the WAML towards the NLL in the peak without cancelling at least the same number of GEML trains, probably more. How is that not destroying the peak?
Where there's a will, there's a way, nobody is saying this is what SHOULD be done, but it certainly IS possible, frankly I think you're being melodramatic and unrealistic.
 

samuelmorris

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Where there's a will, there's a way, nobody is saying this is what SHOULD be done, but it certainly IS possible, frankly I think you're being melodramatic and unrealistic.
Melodramatic maybe, but in the context of how unlikely that is to happen, I think it's fairly proportionate to be dismissive of it. With the current infrastructure, even with changes in layout, it doesn't really work. There'd need to be additional tracks laid and the existing ones moved, which apart from the expense would probably also require some buildings to be removed west of the station. Even fairly basic railway infrastructure projects are proving difficult enough at the moment, this one's a non-starter I'm afraid, much as I would like that not to be so since it would directly benefit me.
 

Bald Rick

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Where there's a will, there's a way, nobody is saying this is what SHOULD be done, but it certainly IS possible, frankly I think you're being melodramatic and unrealistic.

Well I’ve never been called melodramatic before. Nor unrealistic. I shall chalk today up in the diary.
 

ijmad

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Do we think people would actually have any use for through running from the NLL to the STAR route? I mean, much more sensible to connect to the Victoria Line at Tottenham Hale or Crossrail/Central/Jubilee at Stratford to get to most central London destinations.

The very small number of people wanting to travel from, say, Lea Bridge to Clapton might be better served by a bus given the route via train would be practically C-shaped.

Surely better not to arbitrarily connect railways unless the through route is going to be actually useful, right?
 

yorkie

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This thread is a Traction & Rolling stock thread to discuss London Overground Class 710 trains.

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please use an appropriate thread (if there is one already) or create a new thread, in the relevant forum section (if there isn't).

Thanks :)


Do we think people would actually have any use for through running from the NLL to the STAR route? I mean, much more sensible to connect to the Victoria Line at Tottenham Hale or Crossrail/Central/Jubilee at Stratford to get to most central London destinations....
Feel free to create a thread in this section: https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/speculative-ideas.172/
 

AlanFry1

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Incorrect. Over weekends only a couple of units in the sidings at Chingford. Mileages are generally lower 317s but I dont see that being conincidence. We only deploy single 317s unless absolutely necessary ie the isnt a 315 available for that weekend circuit. The only exception to this is football working. Also just because you have units doesn’t mean you’re allowed to invent paths for an increase capacity over weekends, even if the weekday peak works differently with more trains. There are many many many different hoops/obstacles to jump through before something like that is even considered.



Confirmed 4car May-Dec diagrams. GA needing the stock for other services. Stopping patterns remains the same.

This is INSANE, this is the busiest service to Cheshunt. Also, do we know how these are to be diagrammed? 710s? Assume most services will be four car unless a few 315s are being kept?
 

BJames

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This is INSANE, this is the busiest service to Cheshunt. Also, do we know how these are to be diagrammed? 710s? Assume most services will be four car unless a few 315s are being kept?
There was an indication that a single 315 would be retained for the Romford - Upminster shuttle... does anyone know if this is still the case? Apart from this no 315s are being kept for the West Anglia routes. I'm sure that they will be diagrammed 8 car in the peak periods.
 

ijmad

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There was an indication that a single 315 would be retained for the Romford - Upminster shuttle... does anyone know if this is still the case? Apart from this no 315s are being kept for the West Anglia routes. I'm sure that they will be diagrammed 8 car in the peak periods.

The 315 being retained was from this TfL committee paper which was broken down by London Reconnections. The committee paper doesn't specifically state what the 315 is for. Perhaps someone around here has more up to date knowledge or insider knowledge.

Given the recent 378 GOBLIN shenanigans is it possible there is a little more slack than is generally thought in the overall Overground fleet on a good day? Perhaps an extra train might be available if the 378s continue to behave and the 710s settle in to a reasonable performance / maintenance schedule in the medium term?
 

swt_passenger

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The 315 being retained was from this TfL committee paper which was broken down by London Reconnections. The committee paper doesn't specifically state what the 315 is for. Perhaps someone around here has more up to date knowledge or insider knowledge.

Given the recent 378 GOBLIN shenanigans is it possible there is a little more slack than is generally thought in the overall Overground fleet on a good day? Perhaps an extra train might be available if the 378s continue to behave and the 710s settle in to a reasonable performance / maintenance schedule in the medium term?
The retained 315 for Romford-Upminster, and what all the various 710 units are for, has also been discussed at length at least twice in this thread, the first time was in post #35 and subsequent replies.
 

ijmad

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In other news, I caught a 710 on the GOBLIN today and the aircon was set so low it was fecking freezing compared to a Class 378 that proceeded it. The temperature dropped this afternoon compared to this morning, so I wondered if it had been turned up to deal with the sunny weather, though I thought aircon systems were supposed to deal with that and keep a consistent temp.

Otherwise, very nice trains. The ride seems smoother (although that might just be because they're new?), external noise on a par with the 378s (some videos I'd watched made them seem loud) and lower noise level inside, I think. The charging sockets are useful.

Noticed the seat layout is slightly asymmetrical - there is an extra seat opposite the equipment cupboard at the gangway. I suspect I'll get over this but it triggered some mild OCD :E
 

AlanFry1

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There was an indication that a single 315 would be retained for the Romford - Upminster shuttle... does anyone know if this is still the case? Apart from this no 315s are being kept for the West Anglia routes. I'm sure that they will be diagrammed 8 car in the peak periods.

There seems to be a lower number of 710s ordered compared to what we have 315 and 317s?
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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There seems to be a lower number of 710s ordered compared to what we have 315 and 317s?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I suspected the diagrammed double 317s were to be worked by single 710s, not sure if I’m right but I didn’t hear they would ever be coupled in service?
 

ijmad

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As far as I'm aware it's identical, 31 to replace 31 (though if the singular 315 is in fact retained, then I suppose it's one extra).

Do we think there's any chance they might eventually go faster (top speed and/or acceleration) on the West Anglia, thus delivering higher frequency for the same number of trains, or is that pie in the sky given the metro nature of these routes?
 

plcd1

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Do we think there's any chance they might eventually go faster (top speed and/or acceleration) on the West Anglia, thus delivering higher frequency for the same number of trains, or is that pie in the sky given the metro nature of these routes?

I can't see it. Much more likely that they'll hold the extra rolling stock performance "in hand" as a way of aiding service recovery or adding a bit of recovery time at termini (capacity permitting). The whole Overground concept is to have risk averse schedules as far as possible. What is evident is that in the event of "blips" with the GOBLIN service the 378s and 710s can pick up time pretty smartly because of their better acceleration and braking.

I'd also guess there is a dependency with whatever Gtr Anglia do. Once they're all on new trains there may be scope for a little revision to run times where shared with LO services. I don't expect a revolution though given other concerns about train and platform lengths / formations / dwell times with Gtr Anglia's new trains.
 
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Bald Rick

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Do we think there's any chance they might eventually go faster (top speed and/or acceleration) on the West Anglia, thus delivering higher frequency for the same number of trains, or is that pie in the sky given the metro nature of these routes?

The West Anglia is full at peak times, no chance of more frequency.
 

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