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New trains in the Netherlands
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AlexNL
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The legislation is that doors should stand out from their surroundings, it's not specified how this should be achieved. Making them all yellow and putting a thick border around them satisfies that requirement.
What irks me more is that blue-to-black gradient as the banner moves from the side to the front of the train. Black isn't part of the NS livery and gradients aren't either. I think that a rounded end to the blue bar, as seen on the ICMm sets, would look better.
What irks me more is that blue-to-black gradient as the banner moves from the side to the front of the train. Black isn't part of the NS livery and gradients aren't either. I think that a rounded end to the blue bar, as seen on the ICMm sets, would look better.
AlexNL
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At the moment, no. There aren't many lines where 200 km/h running is possible and there are no plans to change that.
The only real contender for 200 km/h is the high speed line (Breda - Rotterdam - Schiphol) and maybe the Hanzelijn (Lelystad - Zwolle), although the latter is electrified with 1800 V DC and I don't know what limitations will apply to ICNG when running on that voltage.
The only real contender for 200 km/h is the high speed line (Breda - Rotterdam - Schiphol) and maybe the Hanzelijn (Lelystad - Zwolle), although the latter is electrified with 1800 V DC and I don't know what limitations will apply to ICNG when running on that voltage.
MisterT
Member
There are some power limitations (current is limited, as it is with most of the trains running at 1500V DC), but the Hanzelijn will actually be the first line in the Netherlands where the trains will hit the 200 km/h during the tests (assuming everything will go as currently planned). Tests on the HSL South will commence later on in the testing programme.
Also Amsterdam Bijlmer to Utrecht can be 200 km an hour. Several years ago there were tests with an ICE. / The Hanzelijn has a problem with the Drontertunnel Too fast and your ears pop and that curve at Kampen is not for 200. Luckely curve and tunnel are close together.
MisterT
Member
Amsterdam Bijlmer - Utrecht is 160 km/h max. Also the ear popping is not a problem with the ICNG, as the train has an airtight design and will automatically close the air intakes as soon as the train enters a tunnel.
MisterT
Member
Offtopic, but I'm afraid that you've been misinformed or have misinterpreted information.
As for the Drontermeertunnel (the tunnel near Kampen) there is absolutely no speed restriction. Some drivers take the liberty to slow down a bit to avoid the ear popping with non-airtight trains, but it is not an obligation to do so.
As for the 200 km/h between Amsterdam and Utrecht: that is a story that gets repeated every now ans then, but there is no truth in the story. There has never been a test run at 200 km/h and unless the complete infrastructure is upgraded for that speed, there never will.
Some infrastructure is prepared for 200 km/h, like viaducts, but that's all. This means that when the decision is made to upgrade the lines to 200 km/h, it is easier to do so, but the line is nowhere near ready for that speed. Even 160 km/h, which is allowed, is not recommended.
As for the Drontermeertunnel (the tunnel near Kampen) there is absolutely no speed restriction. Some drivers take the liberty to slow down a bit to avoid the ear popping with non-airtight trains, but it is not an obligation to do so.
As for the 200 km/h between Amsterdam and Utrecht: that is a story that gets repeated every now ans then, but there is no truth in the story. There has never been a test run at 200 km/h and unless the complete infrastructure is upgraded for that speed, there never will.
Some infrastructure is prepared for 200 km/h, like viaducts, but that's all. This means that when the decision is made to upgrade the lines to 200 km/h, it is easier to do so, but the line is nowhere near ready for that speed. Even 160 km/h, which is allowed, is not recommended.
Sorry to hear that, as someone who prefers to travel by train in Europe I usually avoid the NL as the trains there are annoyingly slow. HSL-Oost would have been great, but a 200 km/h or at least 160 km/h line east to the German border would at least be an improvement.
duesselmartin
Established Member
Any time saving would be minutes only.
Then why was HSL-Zuid built? And borders matter less in today's Europe (I get the irony in writing this on a british forum) so faster connections with Germany can't be a bad thing? There must be enough demand for faster trains Amsterdam-Hamburg and Amsterdam-Berlin.
In the meantime, I avoid NL and give my money to DB and NMBS/SNCB instead as they offer faster connections.
In the meantime, I avoid NL and give my money to DB and NMBS/SNCB instead as they offer faster connections.
duesselmartin
Established Member
It would make a difference If Emmerich to Oberhausen is significantly sped up.
However with only a two hourly ICE this ist unlikely to become a true hsl.
However with only a two hourly ICE this ist unlikely to become a true hsl.
No; the HSL is an asset. The IC Amsterdam - Rotterdam is now at least 1 hour and 15 minutes with 8 stops in between without supplement; the ICD/Thalys is 40 minutes. In the past the D train departed at 7 hours in the morning and arrived 6 hours later in Paris Nord. Now the Thalys is 30 minutes faster to Brussel Zuid and 2 hours to Paris Nord. The pure stopping service Amsterdam - Rotterdam via Breukelen and Gouda with 14 stops is also 75 minutes.
MisterT
Member
It has been a long time since there was a post in this topic, but the first two InterCity Next Generation-trainsets have arrived in The Netherlands. One of the sets will be used for testing, the other set for training.
Today, a few selected media were allowed to look inside the train set that will be used in the tests. Treinreiziger.nl made a short video from the train:
There are a lot of quality issues with this preproduction train set and there have been a few changes to the design in the final version (so this train will be retrofitted once the testing is complete) and all sorts of testing equipment has been installed, but it gives a nice sneak preview of the trains.
Today, a few selected media were allowed to look inside the train set that will be used in the tests. Treinreiziger.nl made a short video from the train:
There are a lot of quality issues with this preproduction train set and there have been a few changes to the design in the final version (so this train will be retrofitted once the testing is complete) and all sorts of testing equipment has been installed, but it gives a nice sneak preview of the trains.
43096
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Quality issues on a new high speed train for the Netherlands? Now where have I heard that before...
MisterT
Member
All new trains have quality issues in the beginning. But those should be rectified in the final production. That was more of an issue with the train-that-will-not-be-named 
MisterT
Member
Just out of curiosity, in what way do you think the trains are a bit spartan?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Fairly normal for NL, but the use of vinyl/e-leather seating, basic colours and lino flooring would not be up to the mark for a UK InterCity train.
Of course, the meaning of "InterCity" rather differs between the two countries. Something like the Brighton GatExes are more like Dutch IC, not LNER.
MisterT
Member
I guess that's just what people are used to here. Our trains use the same basic colour scheme on all trains for brand recognition. These days, people seem to like the bright white with the coloured seats. A nice touch on these trains is the coloured lighting in the train, depending on the area you're in (regular vs quiet zone, first/second class) and the time of the day.
A new colour scheme will be introduced in the future with the soon to be ordered new double decker trains (Double Decker Next Generation, DDNG).
Many comments from Dutch people that I've read even say that the ICNG train looks quite comfortable to them (which I can confirm: the seats actually are IMO). I personally wouldn't say that the trains are 'spartan' because of those things.
Most people here care most about the seats, ride quality and things like USB charging points/power sockets, free WiFi and real-time travel information displays.
A new colour scheme will be introduced in the future with the soon to be ordered new double decker trains (Double Decker Next Generation, DDNG).
Many comments from Dutch people that I've read even say that the ICNG train looks quite comfortable to them (which I can confirm: the seats actually are IMO
). I personally wouldn't say that the trains are 'spartan' because of those things.Most people here care most about the seats, ride quality and things like USB charging points/power sockets, free WiFi and real-time travel information displays.
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DanielB
Member
It's not only what the people are used to, it also has to do with time being spent on the train as well as travel distances. Obviously, especially the north-south distances in the UK are much larger than in The Netherlands, hence there is much more of a market for more luxurious Intercity trains with a higher standard with regards to comfort.
Although ICNG will also appear on the longest distance services in The Netherlands (Groningen/Leeuwarden to Rotterdam) in the future, there are actually very few passengers travelling for the full 3 hours on those services. In most long distance services one would see a phenomenon known as "dakpanvervoer", being a definition for many overlapping short journeys that combine into the long distance train (hence the name: dakpak = roof tile, which are also overlapping).
And as MisterT already mentions the DDNG trains will get a different colour scheme on the inside which has a more warm appearance. Early March I participated in trials with NS Panel members to test potential new interiors for DDNG, during which I took below picture of the first class interior I was asked to rate in an extensive questionnaire.
Although ICNG will also appear on the longest distance services in The Netherlands (Groningen/Leeuwarden to Rotterdam) in the future, there are actually very few passengers travelling for the full 3 hours on those services. In most long distance services one would see a phenomenon known as "dakpanvervoer", being a definition for many overlapping short journeys that combine into the long distance train (hence the name: dakpak = roof tile, which are also overlapping).
And as MisterT already mentions the DDNG trains will get a different colour scheme on the inside which has a more warm appearance. Early March I participated in trials with NS Panel members to test potential new interiors for DDNG, during which I took below picture of the first class interior I was asked to rate in an extensive questionnaire.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The wood panelled ceiling looks classy indeed, but the seats and floor still look like vinyl?
Also seemingly no luggage provision at all?
Also seemingly no luggage provision at all?
duesselmartin
Established Member
Will those trains run in the Bruxelles service?
MisterT
Member
The ICNG trains will also run in the Amsterdam - Bruxelles service, yes. The train that will be used for that service will have a bit different interior with more provision for luggage and bicycle space. And of course the trains will be technically a bit different as they have to be suitable for Belgium. Twenty trains have been ordered for the Belgium services.
The ICNG-B (Belgium) will be compatible with the regular ICNG, so they can be coupled up in service within the Netherlands.
DanielB
Member
The floor had carpet, but the seats indeed were vinyl on the day I was invited for the tests. (Actually, those familiar with the Dutch rolling stock will recognise that the seats are actually VIRM seats with a different colour of upholstry)
However the testing was done a whole week with different types of seats, different types of upholstry and different seating arrangements on each day. I have seen pictures of completely different interiors as well, although wall and ceiling panneling was the same troughout the tests.
Initially not yet, the version able to run into Belgium is part of one of the options in the ICNG order. However, there has been an order for a small number of trains suitable for Belgium which will be used for trials and getting the necessary approvals before the complete order is placed.
Initial services with ICNG as of somewhere in 2021 are the high speed services from Amsterdam to Breda and after that Groningen/Leeuwarden - Breda via the Hanzelijn, Schiphol and Rotterdam are due to get ICNG (that's a new service combining a current IC service and an IC-direct service).
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