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Why do some Blackpool to Euston trains omit Crewe?

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keithboddey

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Can someone pleas explain why the 4 Trains a day fail to stop at Crewe.
This stop would allow passengers from North Wales,the Midlands and Cardiff and the marches to tap into it.
 
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Ianno87

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Can someone pleas explain why the 4 Trains a day fail to stop at Crewe.
This stop would allow passengers from North Wales,the Midlands and Cardiff and the marches to tap into it.

North Wales passengers can change at Warrington. West Midlands passengers can change at Preston.
 

a_c_skinner

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Omitting Crewe is an irritation for the Glasgow trains too, meaning for Wigan northwards there is only 1tph for Crewe and connections
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The peak services (Voyagers) do stop at Crewe, and also at Poulton/Kirkham.
The first up one joins to a Holyhead portion at Crewe.
The paths of the Pendolinos are pretty poor and don't seem to have been improved in the new timetable.
The hourly Preston-Birmingham-Euston works pretty well, though the northbound connection from the Marches isn't very good.
Life's a bit better for Chester/North Wales at Warrington now the Chester-Leeds service has started.
 

underbank

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It's what happens when journey times are the focus - fewer stops - the fact that people are inconvenienced and have to change is secondary to the few who want to go the full distance slightly quicker. But more stops don't attract the media attention as much as "fastest ever" journey times. They can't make the trains faster, so to keep the illusion of a faster railway, they omit stops. Same will happen with HS2 - the London<>Glasgow will be faster, but there'll be fewer stops in the North as the sacrifice needed.
 

dk1

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According to Virgin Trains they are happy with the take up for the Blackpool services one year on. There was a report recently in MR magazine about a one off journey (think it was the 08:54 off Euston) which was very lightly loaded. I can only comment on my journey in April. It was the 11:02 from Blackpool & although never full, we commented on the healthy loadings from the resort. It does seem that more could be done to sell slightly cheaper advance fares on these to free up much needed capacity on the often overcrowded Anglo-Scots.
 

The Planner

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The paths of the Pendolinos are pretty poor and don't seem to have been improved in the new timetable.
They won't be either unless Virgin ask for them to be altered. The 08.54 Euston Blackpool could probably make a stop at Crewe as its pathed out behind the LNWR Liverpool and follows it. The 10.36 Euston Blackpool cannot due to platforming at Crewe. The 10.54 Blackpool Euston cannot as it would clash at Rugby with a New St to Euston. The 1303 and 1502 cannot due to the same issues at Rugby, it would be caught up. You would also have 3 Virgin trains to Euston in around 11-12 minutes if you did that too.
 

route101

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Omitting Crewe is an irritation for the Glasgow trains too, meaning for Wigan northwards there is only 1tph for Crewe and connections

Did the via Trent valle anglo scots make regular stops at Crewe?
 

dk1

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Going back to loco hauled days Crewe was AFAICR only a stop in a limited number of those services. Indeed most ran non-stop Euston Preston and vv.
In the 1990 GBTT only the 10:25 'Royal Scot' did that. The only other service not to stop at Crewe s the 16:25 which ran fast from Watford Jcn to Warrington BQ. The service was hourly with basically every other service going forward to Glasgow.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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My recollection is that the 2-hourly Glasgows did stop at Crewe, but were largely non-stop Crewe-Preston (and Preston-Carlisle).
Even the Birmingham-Scotlands did that.
Blackpool, Lancaster and Carlisle terminators picked up the other stations in the other hours.
Crewe had 2tph London services, the Liverpool and the Glasgow.
London-Chester/North Wales only had 3tpd, and there were only a couple of peak London-Manchester services via Crewe.
 

VT 390

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North Wales passengers can change at Warrington. West Midlands passengers can change at Preston.
There would be more connections at Crewe though as there is the London North Western services as well to Crewe but only 1tph to Preston (which is often full), also more stations would have connections on to the Blackpool services that are not service by the Virgin services.
 

RT4038

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There would be more connections at Crewe though as there is the London North Western services as well to Crewe but only 1tph to Preston (which is often full), also more stations would have connections on to the Blackpool services that are not service by the Virgin services.

But this could be said about any service omitting stops at junction stations. The whole point of express trains is to give fast journey times on the densely trafficked routes. Some kind of justification could be made for the London-Glasgow via Trent Valley to stop at lots of additional junctions (to improve connectivity), but how long will the journey take, and how will this compete against other modes? Passengers want express trains to stop at the Junction station(s) that they wish to use, but not at any other!!!
 

VT 390

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But this could be said about any service omitting stops at junction stations. The whole point of express trains is to give fast journey times on the densely trafficked routes. Some kind of justification could be made for the London-Glasgow via Trent Valley to stop at lots of additional junctions (to improve connectivity), but how long will the journey take, and how will this compete against other modes? Passengers want express trains to stop at the Junction station(s) that they wish to use, but not at any other!!!

I agree that some services are better missing out stations to improve journey times and reduce overcrowding, the Glasgow to London trains are one of these, however the Virgin Blackpool services are usually lightly loaded and stopping at Crewe could get more people to use them.
 

RT4038

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I agree that some services are better missing out stations to improve journey times and reduce overcrowding, the Glasgow to London trains are one of these, however the Virgin Blackpool services are usually lightly loaded and stopping at Crewe could get more people to use them.

Their loadings would be improved if they stopped at other junctions too, many of which (unlike Crewe) have no through trains to Warrington, Wigan, Preston etc - Bletchley, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Rugeley, Stafford. I think Crewe has plenty of trains to/from London already.
But would they be an express then?
 

VT 390

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Their loadings would be improved if they stopped at other junctions too, many of which (unlike Crewe) have no through trains to Warrington, Wigan, Preston etc - Bletchley, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield Rugeley, Stafford. I think Crewe has plenty of trains to/from London already.
But would they be an express then?
I can agree that stations like Nuneaton and Tamworth would be good to have the service call at but places like Rugeley and Lichfield would not have enough usage for this service (except maybe towards London) and Crewe has many more interchange possibilities than Stafford.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Prior to the remodelling / rationalisation in (I think) 1984, the maximum speed through Crewe station for a non-stopping service was 20mph. The nominal 'Down Through' was the line between what are now platforms 11 and 12. (The space between what are now platforms 4 and 5 included engine holding sidings.) Therefore the time-saving for not stopping at Crewe was much less, compared to post-remodelling when the much straightened Up and Down Fast lines were rated at 85mph and better journey time reductions were achievable for 'flyers'.

Out of interest - does anyone have sight of the first Intercity timetables with the post-remodelling layout to compare journey times and stopping patterns at Crewe? I think 1984 is the year the work took place but happy to be corrected.
 

Deafdoggie

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I thought Crewe remodelling was 1985, but again I’m happy to be corrected too!
There are no lines between the current 4 & 5 (4 being the South facing bay now used by LNR) nor were there before remodelling (then they were 5 & 5b) I don’t recall there being lines between what is now 11 & 12 (used to be 3 & 4) other than what is still there.
The fast lines were where they are now (between current 5 & 6) although the speeds were raised
 

jfollows

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In case it interests anyone, I attach my diagrams of Crewe made shortly before the remodelling, probably done initially before 1980 with slight modifications noted in 1984 before the major work.

And, yes, I couldn't spell "independent" at the time.

Down through trains to Manchester sometimes used the Down Through Number 1, passing Crewe Station A signal box and making a grand noise crossing at Crewe North Junction.

Crewe 1984 1 of 2.jpeg Crewe 1984 2 of 2.jpeg
 
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Wilts Wanderer

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I thought Crewe remodelling was 1985, but again I’m happy to be corrected too!
There are no lines between the current 4 & 5 (4 being the South facing bay now used by LNR) nor were there before remodelling (then they were 5 & 5b) I don’t recall there being lines between what is now 11 & 12 (used to be 3 & 4) other than what is still there.
The fast lines were where they are now (between current 5 & 6) although the speeds were raised

Google would support 1985, I stand corrected.

Regarding the through lines, looking at the diagrams jfollows has kindly provided, the Down Through is positioned how I thought, between what are now P11 and P12. This line still exists but is now simply a goods loop.
 

Deafdoggie

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Regarding the Liverpool Independent line, is it that one that rises up next to where the APT exhibit is if facing towards the Warrington direction?
Indeed. The up goes down (as it were) on the furthest line from the APT
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The current fast lines through Crewe I think are 80mph rather than 85mph.
I seem to remember they were used for parking any old rolling stock before the remodelling, eg parcels vans and spare locos.
You hardly ever got a clear view of the whole station in those days, with all the parked vehicles.
Presumably they were also the fast lines through the station before the major LNWR expansion before WW1 on the western side.
Crewe's 1985 remodelling has not worn well really, and was untouched by WCRM.
 

krus_aragon

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I seem to remember they were used for parking any old rolling stock before the remodelling, eg parcels vans and spare locos.
You hardly ever got a clear view of the whole station in those days, with all the parked vehicles.
Was it the case that, once the independent lines were built at the turn of the century, the through lines were largely un-needed?

(The practice was nothing new, though: the Chester & Holyhead had been storing stock on the through lines at Bangor back in 1850s.)
 
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