German Reunification in the 1990s

Aictos · 3 Jun 2019

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #9 originally in this thread.

matacaster said:
Whilst it may appear bonkers, there are quite a few countries that have moved their capitals, off the top of my head

West Germany Bonn-> Berlin
Brazil Buenos Aires -> Brasilia
Russia St Petersburg -> Moscow

and where no compromise was possible

Australia -> Tiny Canberra (simply because they couldn't choose between Melbourne and Sydney) Edinburgh and Glasgow watch out!

Not sure why it was chosen, but

USA Washington is not the biggest place in country

Just to point out that Berlin has always been the capital of Germany and the only reason that Bonn was chosen by then what was West Germany is simply because Berlin at the time was under East German rule so they had to find a capital elsewhere.

Once both East and West Germany’s reunited in early 90s, the capital once more was Berlin.

Besides both West and East Germany ceased to exist at the reunification and are now called Germany.

RailUK Forums

ainsworth74 · 3 Jun 2019

Aictos said:
Just to point out that Berlin has always been the capital of Germany and the only reason that Bonn was chosen by then what was West Germany is simply because Berlin at the time was under East German rule so they had to find a capital elsewhere.

Once both East and West Germany’s reunited in early 90s, the capital once more was Berlin.

Besides both West and East Germany ceased to exist at the reunification and are now called Germany.

The capital became Berlin but the seat of government only moved back to Berlin after a vote in the Bundestag with 338 in favour of the move and 320 opposed. Not exactly overwhelming! No reason that London couldn't remain the capital of the UK but with the seat of government moved somewhere else (see the Netherlands where Amsterdam is the capital city but the government operates out of The Hague).

Railwaysceptic · 3 Jun 2019

Aictos said:
Just to point out that Berlin has always been the capital of Germany and the only reason that Bonn was chosen by then what was West Germany is simply because Berlin at the time was under East German rule so they had to find a capital elsewhere.

The reason Bonn was chosen instead of more obvious contenders like Frankfurt, Cologne or Hamburg is that Konrad Adenauer lived there!

Senex · 3 Jun 2019

Aictos said:
Just to point out that Berlin has always been the capital of Germany and the only reason that Bonn was chosen by then what was West Germany is simply because Berlin at the time was under East German rule so they had to find a capital elsewhere.

Once both East and West Germany’s reunited in early 90s, the capital once more was Berlin.

Besides both West and East Germany ceased to exist at the reunification and are now called Germany.

Not always. Berlin was the capital of Prussia, and it became in addition to that the capital of the German Empire when that was created. In the Weimar Republic it was the capital. After WW2 the two separate states were created, the Russian Zone as the DDR and the three western zones as the BRD. Technically, Berlin remained a 4-power city and the only relic of "Germany", which had very interesting consequences for the organisation and management of the railways. The Russian Zone of the city was allowed by the USSR to function as the capital of the DDR, but the three western powers retained rights in it right up to the end. The western zones were combined as West Berlin (or Westberlin, depending on your politics). After re-unification there was a vote about the capital, as ainsworth74 explains. The re-unification actually happened by the re-constitution of the Bezirke of the DDR into their earlier Länder and then the application of these Länder to join the federal republic under the provisions existing in the Grundgesetz (Constitution) of the BRD. So East Germany ceased to exist, the Federal Republic of Germany (BRD) grew much larger—and we in the west all stopped talking about West Germany. There's a whole lot of excellent HMSO stuff on the post-war organisations and re-organisations.

Please Explain · 4 Jun 2019

Senex said:
Not always. Berlin was the capital of Prussia, and it became in addition to that the capital of the German Empire when that was created. In the Weimar Republic it was the capital. After WW2 the two separate states were created, the Russian Zone as the DDR and the three western zones as the BRD. Technically, Berlin remained a 4-power city and the only relic of "Germany", which had very interesting consequences for the organisation and management of the railways. The Russian Zone of the city was allowed by the USSR to function as the capital of the DDR, but the three western powers retained rights in it right up to the end. The western zones were combined as West Berlin (or Westberlin, depending on your politics). After re-unification there was a vote about the capital, as ainsworth74 explains. The re-unification actually happened by the re-constitution of the Bezirke of the DDR into their earlier Länder and then the application of these Länder to join the federal republic under the provisions existing in the Grundgesetz (Constitution) of the BRD. So East Germany ceased to exist, the Federal Republic of Germany (BRD) grew much larger—and we in the west all stopped talking about West Germany. There's a whole lot of excellent HMSO stuff on the post-war organisations and re-organisations.

Yes, this created some very interesting situation indeed! In particular the fact that the DR (railway of the DDR) was a one of the biggest owners of land in Berlin (West) operated the S-bahn and employed many Wessi's there..
However, we in the DDR did not recognise the "rights" of the western ally's over the Hauptstadt der DDR which of course led to most notably the crisis in '61 and many other stories I could tell you of this time..
What you describe is quite correct; "2+4=1" etc, there was no "reunification" at all, but only an annexation (anschluß), of the leftovers of 40 years of socialism by the Wessi's who simply extended the BRD, NATO, European Union, capitalism and mass privatisation, this brought unemployment, hard times, exodus and distress for so many people...

Greetings.

coppercapped · 4 Jun 2019

'Beitritt' is the word you are looking for, not 'Anschuß'.

Among the other bad things that happened in the 'old-DDR' was that within a very few years many, if not most, buildings received new roofs and paint - not much in those lines had been done anywhere since 1933. Apart from the 'Plattenbauten'.

DynamicSpirit · 4 Jun 2019

coppercapped said:
'Beitritt' is the word you are looking for, not 'Anschuß'.

Among the other bad things that happened in the 'old-DDR' was that within a very few years many, if not most, buildings received new roofs and paint - not much in those lines had been done anywhere since 1933. Apart from the 'Plattenbauten'.

Out of interest, why is getting new roofs and paint a bad thing?

Aictos · 4 Jun 2019

MfS said:
Yes, this created some very interesting situation indeed! In particular the fact that the DR (railway of the DDR) was a one of the biggest owners of land in Berlin (West) operated the S-bahn and employed many Wessi's there..
However, we in the DDR did not recognise the "rights" of the western ally's over the Hauptstadt der DDR which of course led to most notably the crisis in '61 and many other stories I could tell you of this time..
What you describe is quite correct; "2+4=1" etc, there was no "reunification" at all, but only an annexation (anschluß), of the leftovers of 40 years of socialism by the Wessi's who simply extended the BRD, NATO, European Union, capitalism and mass privatisation, this brought unemployment, hard times, exodus and distress for so many people...

Greetings.

If West Germany reuniting with East Germany was so bad, how come countless East Germans lost their lives trying to escape to the West in aim of a better life?

Iskra · 4 Jun 2019

Aictos said:
Mod Note: Posts #1 - #9 originally in this thread.

Just to point out that Berlin has always been the capital of Germany and the only reason that Bonn was chosen by then what was West Germany is simply because Berlin at the time was under East German rule so they had to find a capital elsewhere.

Once both East and West Germany’s reunited in early 90s, the capital once more was Berlin.

Besides both West and East Germany ceased to exist at the reunification and are now called Germany.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I believe the German capital moved in the dying days of World War II, I think it may have been to Kiel after the fall of Berlin.

Aictos · 4 Jun 2019

Iskra said:
Sorry to be pedantic, but I believe the German capital moved in the dying days of World War II, I think it may have been to Kiel after the fall of Berlin.

Not quite, the capital moved to Flensburg towards the last 3 weeks of World War 2 and was known as the Flensburg Government as a result.

Article here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flensburg_Government

coppercapped · 4 Jun 2019

DynamicSpirit said:
Out of interest, why is getting new roofs and paint a bad thing?

Because MfS wrote

this brought unemployment, hard times, exodus and distress for so many people...

which were obviously bad things, but completely ignored the good things - freedom to travel, better air, the abolishment of the Stasi, more competitive industry (many products of DDR industry were unsaleable outside the Soviet bloc, hence the unemployment after the wall came down) and new roofs and paint on millions of houses.

gordonthemoron · 4 Jun 2019

Buenos Aires is the Capital of Argentina and has never been the Capital of Brasil

si404 · 4 Jun 2019

DynamicSpirit said:
Out of interest, why is getting new roofs and paint a bad thing?

I think that's the OPs point - the list of 'bad things' they were responding too weren't actually bad.

Senex · 4 Jun 2019

Iskra said:
Sorry to be pedantic, but I believe the German capital moved in the dying days of World War II, I think it may have been to Kiel after the fall of Berlin.

The Flensburg Government, with Karl von Dönitz has head of state. But I think we're only talking about the place where the "government" was briefly located and that Berlin remained the capital city. In any case, historians seem to have big questions about what sort of effective government it really was, and American and Russian attitudes towards it seem to have been rather different from British ones.

TheEdge · 4 Jun 2019

Aictos said:
Besides both West and East Germany ceased to exist at the reunification and are now called Germany.

Was it not done in such a way that officially the Länder that made up East Germany legally became part of West Germany, which then simultaneously became known as Germany? This allowed the new Germany to maintain membership of international organisations that were held by West Germany without impact.

Senex · 4 Jun 2019

TheEdge said:
Was it not done in such a way that officially the Länder that made up East Germany legally became part of West Germany, which then simultaneously became known as Germany? This allowed the new Germany to maintain membership of international organisations that were held by West Germany without impact.

As I said in #4 ... There were no Länder in the DDR as they had been abolished years before. But the BRD constitution contained a provision where other Länder could apply to join the federation. So the scheme adopted was to re-form the DDR Bezirke into the Länder out of which they had been formed so that these Länder could then just apply to join the BRD under existing law. As for the name of the country, the Bundesrepublik Deutschland simply continued in existence unchanged as far as the formal name went. Informally, people began to talk simply of Deutschland (as many West Germans always had!) or the appropriate version in other languages. "Deutschland" had of course never been generally acceptable in the DDR — think of that national anthem that consisted of a tune only because of the unacceptability of "Deutschland, einig Vaterland" in the first verse of its words — where everyone was taught to use "(unser) DDR" and to refer to the other lot as the BRD. "What's in a name?" was a fascinating subject in the two parts of divided Germany (and even more so when one added in the parts of one-time Germany)!

Aictos · 4 Jun 2019

Railwaysceptic said:
The reason Bonn was chosen instead of more obvious contenders like Frankfurt, Cologne or Hamburg is that Konrad Adenauer lived there!

Not really, Bonn was chosen by West Germany as a provisional capital to emphasise its stance that the two-state solution was an artificial and temporary status quo. As stated in the following book: Wise, Michael Z. (1998). Capital dilemma: Germany's search for a new architecture of democracy

MfS said:
What you describe is quite correct; "2+4=1" etc, there was no "reunification" at all, but only an annexation (anschluß), of the leftovers of 40 years of socialism by the Wessi's who simply extended the BRD, NATO, European Union, capitalism and mass privatisation, this brought unemployment, hard times, exodus and distress for so many people...

Greetings.

I disagree as there was reunification after all which this article goes into deep detail about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_reunification

Please Explain · 4 Jun 2019

coppercapped said:
'Beitritt' is the word you are looking for, not 'Anschuß'.

Among the other bad things that happened in the 'old-DDR' was that within a very few years many, if not most, buildings received new roofs and paint - not much in those lines had been done anywhere since 1933. Apart from the 'Plattenbauten'.

No, the word is Anschluß is indeed the word I am looking for because that is exactly what happened. The west annexed and took our country over after they were fed lies and false promises by CDU and that fat mann, Kohl.

Please Explain · 4 Jun 2019

Senex said:
As I said in #4 ... There were no Länder in the DDR as they had been abolished years before. But the BRD constitution contained a provision where other Länder could apply to join the federation. So the scheme adopted was to re-form the DDR Bezirke into the Länder out of which they had been formed so that these Länder could then just apply to join the BRD under existing law. As for the name of the country, the Bundesrepublik Deutschland simply continued in existence unchanged as far as the formal name went. Informally, people began to talk simply of Deutschland (as many West Germans always had!) or the appropriate version in other languages. "Deutschland" had of course never been generally acceptable in the DDR — think of that national anthem that consisted of a tune only because of the unacceptability of "Deutschland, einig Vaterland" in the first verse of its words — where everyone was taught to use "(unser) DDR" and to refer to the other lot as the BRD. "What's in a name?" was a fascinating subject in the two parts of divided Germany (and even more so when one added in the parts of one-time Germany)!

Correct.

The Länder of the DDR were reestablished in late September of '90 for this purpose. And were the annexed (plus Berlin, Hauptstadt der DDR und Berlin West) into the BRD at 00:01 UHR on 03. Oktober, 1990.
Article 23 of the BRD Grundgesetz existed especially for this purpose since the beginning, as they believed from the start that they held an exclusive mandate for the whole country -(including lands east of the Oder-Neiße-Linie now in VR Polen), it was Bundeskanzler Adenauer who famously claimed that they still belonged to the BRD and this was in fact official policy right up until "Ostpolitik" of Willy Brandt.
After the "reunification" of 1990 this article 23 was removed from the Grundgesetz making the new borders permanent, so these lands are lost forever..
Or at least until the next war in Europe anyway...

What you say about our beautiful Nationalhymne, Auferstanden aus Ruinen is also very true. It was only played without lyrics after Genosse Honecker was elected Generalsekratäre des ZK der SED und Vorsitzender des Staatsrat as he wanted to emphasise on a separate DDR identity. This changes after "die Wende" and the original lyrics returned until the end on 02.10.1990.

Hard to believe it was all nearly thirty years ago.. Just where does time go?

thejuggler · 4 Jun 2019

coppercapped said:
'Beitritt' is the word you are looking for, not 'Anschuß'.

Among the other bad things that happened in the 'old-DDR' was that within a very few years many, if not most, buildings received new roofs and paint - not much in those lines had been done anywhere since 1933. Apart from the 'Plattenbauten'.

I visited the Baltic coast of Germany a couple of years ago and you forget it was once East Germany. The guide mentioned the house colours and that it was the first thing householders did on unification.

The guide was amazing, her grandfather was about 98 and had lived through 4 different regimes in Germany, including time under the Soviet Union in a prison camp where he gained his skills as an engineer and bootmaker. He actually preferred the East German regime and despite having an opportunity to move permanently to the West he moved back to the east.

Please Explain · 4 Jun 2019

Aictos said:
If West Germany reuniting with East Germany was so bad, how come countless East Germans lost their lives trying to escape to the West in aim of a better life?

They were regrettably casualties of the cold War. The border regime was a necessary evil to ensure peace and stability so that war would not break out again in Europe. Those who felt the need to attempt republikflucht knew well the risks they were taking, attempting to cross the border illegally, minds were corrupted by West TV and radio, sadly people believed the streets of the BRD were "pathed with gold", when in fact they had everything they needed under real existing socialism in the DDR, things that not everyone has the luxury of in the BRD as many would later find out the harsh realities of life under a capitalist system.
In fact I can tell you of DDR citizens who later willingly returned voluntarily to their old life's because they were better than in West and even shared their stories in MfS lehrfilm's when they returned.

coppercapped said:
Because MfS wrote

which were obviously bad things, but completely ignored the good things - freedom to travel, better air, the abolishment of the Stasi, more competitive industry (many products of DDR industry were unsaleable outside the Soviet bloc, hence the unemployment after the wall came down) and new roofs and paint on millions of houses.

We already had "freedom to travel", to all of the socialist brother countries of the Warschau treaty organisation and then after the new travel laws of Genosse Egon Krenz on 09.11.1989 it was possible to visit the BRD and Berlin (West) with just personalausweis and not even passport. But it was of course the chaotic manner in which it was announced that evening that caused us so many problems (Günter Schabowski began reading to the press on the evening of the 9th, what should have been published on the morning of the 10th!)

„Das tritt… nach meiner Kenntnis… ist das sofort, unverzüglich!“

This was of course broadcast to the world and also seen and heard by millions of DDR bürger on Aktuelle Kamera and led to them coming to the checkpoints in their thousands that night but we had no instructions to let them go West, our superior officers in HA VI in Berlin-Lichtenberg also had "no clue" as the regulations were to be passed by the Volkskammer the next morning and no one knew nothing! This led to MANY telefon calls backwards and forwards that night until our
Oberstleutnant finally took the decision to open our checkpoint and let them through.
What followed was a Volksfest for all of them with scenes people could only dream of but for me no...

The travel regulation was the first of many reforms planned by Egon Krenz, which brings me to your next statement; "the abolishment of the Stasi".

The Ministerrat was dissolved on 17.11.1989 and a new one appointed, this included long time Minister für Staatssicherheit, Genosse Armeegeneral Erich "Ich liebe doch ALLE!" Mielke..
He was replaced by Genosse Dr Ing Wolfgang Schwanitz as Leiter des Amtes für Nationale Sicherheit (AfNS), the successor organisation that replaced the MfS until 15.01.1990 when the headquarters of the MfS/AfNS in Normannenstraße was
stormed" by "protesters"..
Actually, they were just criminals, what we witnessed that evening was nothing but pure criminality when thugs entered the complex, and began looting and destroyimg the place...
Tell me, what would you think of the same situation unfolding at the offices of a certain "shady outfit" at Vauxhall Cross??
This counter revolutionary action resulted in the AfNS being dissolved under the leadership of Genosse Generalmajor Heinz Engelhardt who with the support of Dr Schwanitz and newly elected DDR Ministerpräsident Hans Modrow
Initially attempted to in turn replace the AfNS by splitting it into two successor organisations; Verfassungsschutz der DDR und Nachrichtendienst der DDR just like in West.
Sadly this also failed and Modrow, Gregor Gysi and the new SED leadership began to distance themselves from us, and on that evening there was not even a phone call made from Modrow's office to Engelhardt and the few remaining AfNS men in the building while the angry mob gathered downstairs...
Heinz Engelhardt tells this story very well by the way in his recent book; „Der letzte Mann: Countdown fürs MfS” which I highly recommend to get a better understanding of this complicated turbulent time in our country.

The following years and even until now in the "ex-DDR" seen a "Stasi witch hunt", lifes were destroyed literally, years of service suddenly meant nothing at all and MfS vetrens were demonized and denied of state pensions etc, also NVA und Grenztruppen veterns too. And as I have already mentioned, mass unemployment for so many.
Krenz planned to reform our country, we knew it was not perfect and had many problems, but without the interference from West, Kohl and to a certain extent being abandoned by Gorbachev and the UdSSR I and many of my former colleagues remain confident that we would have solved them our self's and the DDR would be a real socialist alternative and celebrate its 70th anniversary on 7. Oktober this year.

The MfS existed as the "sword and shield of the SED", our mission was to defend socialism and the workers and peasants state, in those dying days however our mission had sadly become to protect ourselves from those very people.
We had in the end been abandoned by Modrow and the new SED leadership and "hung out to dry" as you say.
All we could do was act to protect our self's, our families, friends and our IM's, what else could we do?

coppercapped · 4 Jun 2019

TheEdge said:
Was it not done in such a way that officially the Länder that made up East Germany legally became part of West Germany, which then simultaneously became known as Germany? This allowed the new Germany to maintain membership of international organisations that were held by West Germany without impact.

Not quite, the state is known as the Bundesrepublik Deutschland - the Federal Republic of Germany. What we knew as 'West Germany' was officially always known as the Bundesrepublik Deutschland and it absorbed the Länder of the Soviet zone with no name change.

WestCoast · 4 Jun 2019

Of course, there's East Germany and there's the old Eastern Germany, which I find even more interesting. I visited Silesia last month, in and around Wrocław, and some of the streets and squares are indistinguishable from parts of Dresden or Berlin. Of course there's much socialist era architecture too but you can easily imagine the city's past days as Breslau before the border changes.

ivanhoe · 5 Jun 2019

Interestingly, when I visited Berlin in 2006, I was staying in what would have been East Berlin. I remember a young person serving me in a restaurant and referring to the the people of West Berlin still as Wessies. She must have been a baby when the wall fell, but still felt the emotional attachment to DDR. I suppose it takes a generation to get rid of its past.

coppercapped · 5 Jun 2019

MfS said:
They were regrettably casualties of the cold War. The border regime was a necessary evil to ensure peace and stability so that war would not break out again in Europe. Those who felt the need to attempt republikflucht knew well the risks they were taking, attempting to cross the border illegally, minds were corrupted by West TV and radio, sadly people believed the streets of the BRD were "pathed with gold", when in fact they had everything they needed under real existing socialism in the DDR, things that not everyone has the luxury of in the BRD as many would later find out the harsh realities of life under a capitalist system.
In fact I can tell you of DDR citizens who later willingly returned voluntarily to their old life's because they were better than in West and even shared their stories in MfS lehrfilm's when they returned.

We already had "freedom to travel", to all of the socialist brother countries of the Warschau treaty organisation and then after the new travel laws of Genosse Egon Krenz on 09.11.1989 it was possible to visit the BRD and Berlin (West) with just personalausweis and not even passport. But it was of course the chaotic manner in which it was announced that evening that caused us so many problems (Günter Schabowski began reading to the press on the evening of the 9th, what should have been published on the morning of the 10th!)

„Das tritt… nach meiner Kenntnis… ist das sofort, unverzüglich!“

This was of course broadcast to the world and also seen and heard by millions of DDR bürger on Aktuelle Kamera and led to them coming to the checkpoints in their thousands that night but we had no instructions to let them go West, our superior officers in HA VI in Berlin-Lichtenberg also had "no clue" as the regulations were to be passed by the Volkskammer the next morning and no one knew nothing! This led to MANY telefon calls backwards and forwards that night until our
Oberstleutnant finally took the decision to open our checkpoint and let them through.
What followed was a Volksfest for all of them with scenes people could only dream of but for me no...

The travel regulation was the first of many reforms planned by Egon Krenz, which brings me to your next statement; "the abolishment of the Stasi".

The Ministerrat was dissolved on 17.11.1989 and a new one appointed, this included long time Minister für Staatssicherheit, Genosse Armeegeneral Erich "Ich liebe doch ALLE!" Mielke..
He was replaced by Genosse Dr Ing Wolfgang Schwanitz as Leiter des Amtes für Nationale Sicherheit (AfNS), the successor organisation that replaced the MfS until 15.01.1990 when the headquarters of the MfS/AfNS in Normannenstraße was
stormed" by "protesters"..
Actually, they were just criminals, what we witnessed that evening was nothing but pure criminality when thugs entered the complex, and began looting and destroyimg the place...
Tell me, what would you think of the same situation unfolding at the offices of a certain "shady outfit" at Vauxhall Cross??
This counter revolutionary action resulted in the AfNS being dissolved under the leadership of Genosse Generalmajor Heinz Engelhardt who with the support of Dr Schwanitz and newly elected DDR Ministerpräsident Hans Modrow
Initially attempted to in turn replace the AfNS by splitting it into two successor organisations; Verfassungsschutz der DDR und Nachrichtendienst der DDR just like in West.
Sadly this also failed and Modrow, Gregor Gysi and the new SED leadership began to distance themselves from us, and on that evening there was not even a phone call made from Modrow's office to Engelhardt and the few remaining AfNS men in the building while the angry mob gathered downstairs...
Heinz Engelhardt tells this story very well by the way in his recent book; „Der letzte Mann: Countdown fürs MfS” which I highly recommend to get a better understanding of this complicated turbulent time in our country.

The following years and even until now in the "ex-DDR" seen a "Stasi witch hunt", lifes were destroyed literally, years of service suddenly meant nothing at all and MfS vetrens were demonized and denied of state pensions etc, also NVA und Grenztruppen veterns too. And as I have already mentioned, mass unemployment for so many.
Krenz planned to reform our country, we knew it was not perfect and had many problems, but without the interference from West, Kohl and to a certain extent being abandoned by Gorbachev and the UdSSR I and many of my former colleagues remain confident that we would have solved them our self's and the DDR would be a real socialist alternative and celebrate its 70th anniversary on 7. Oktober this year.

The MfS existed as the "sword and shield of the SED", our mission was to defend socialism and the workers and peasants state, in those dying days however our mission had sadly become to protect ourselves from those very people.
We had in the end been abandoned by Modrow and the new SED leadership and "hung out to dry" as you say.
All we could do was act to protect our self's, our families, friends and our IM's, what else could we do?

You are sounding like a transcript of a TV interview with an elderly ex-Vopo which I saw a couple of years ago.

Are you real?

Please Explain · 5 Jun 2019

ivanhoe said:
Interestingly, when I visited Berlin in 2006, I was staying in what would have been East Berlin. I remember a young person serving me in a restaurant and referring to the the people of West Berlin still as Wessies. She must have been a baby when the wall fell, but still felt the emotional attachment to DDR. I suppose it takes a generation to get rid of its past.

Absolut,

This still exists today amongst many people, particularly of the older 40+ generation and and also in some younger people like you mention. Even in the West people still think of "us and them" as "Ossis".
For me personally from 1990 onwards it was a "culture shock" like another planet in those early years.

coppercapped said:
You are sounding like a transcript of a TV interview with an elderly ex-Vopo which I saw a couple of years ago.

Are you real?

Definite "real"? Real in the sense that I'm an elderly ex Volkspolizei Officer? Then no.
I never seen the interview you refer to, views and opinions are purely my own personal experience of that time.

I served in Hauptabteilung VI of the MfS/AfNS from 1987-1990.

Spoorslag '70 · 6 Jun 2019

Is it really an annexion when the people of the occupied Länder vote for a parliament which want to abolish socialism and join the western part of Germany (Volkskammerwahl 1990)? - I don't think so. (With all due respect, that was the only election that can be seen as remotely democratic in the existence of the so called democratic republic).

If you look at what your ministerium has done to loads of people (not only the famous ones like Brecht, but also the "normals" with different political views), if you look at what the Germans in the soviet-occupied areas wished quite clearly (PEGIDA is a sad joke against the protests in Leipzig etc.), if you look at the state the "democratic" state was in - I can't see how it could have surrived for much longer.

From what I read and with all (un)due respect, you seem to be part of the generation setting fire to homes for asylum seekers and blaming your own missery on political decisions. I am very sad that many people still have that view, but it does come down in the election results. You still to remember

Once again, if the soviet zone was so great, why did so many people leave it and why did so many want at least a change in the way it worked. If they did not shut down the MfS, they would have a huge problem.

433N · 6 Jun 2019

ivanhoe said:
Interestingly, when I visited Berlin in 2006, I was staying in what would have been East Berlin. I remember a young person serving me in a restaurant and referring to the the people of West Berlin still as Wessies. She must have been a baby when the wall fell, but still felt the emotional attachment to DDR. I suppose it takes a generation to get rid of its past.

I always fancied one of these t-shirts (still available I notice) ...
https://www.amazon.de/stolz-Damen-Sprüche-Shirt-Funshirt/dp/B00LX77B88
"Proud to be an Ossi"

Being an Ossi seems to be an existential state rather than a geographical quirk.

(Could I just recommend Stefan Heym's Auf Sand gebaut if you can read German - don't think it has been translated yet, might be wrong)

Aictos · 6 Jun 2019

MfS said:
I served in Hauptabteilung VI of the MfS/AfNS from 1987-1990.

I’m not familiar with this unit so what were their duties? Where they border guards?

Calthrop · 6 Jun 2019

I gather that the Ossi / Wessi business has been a "thing" in Germany, definitely for a long time -- pre-dating the aftermath of World War II and the "Iron Curtain". The people of the west of Germany long tended to regard themselves as in the mainstream of Western culture and civilisation; and to see their compatriots further east as coarse, benighted, old-fashioned, and reactionary in outlook. The Easterners in turn, were apt to see "Sodom and Gomorrah" tendencies in the western Germans; and to consider themselves, the right-thinking guardians of the proper German values and virtues.

German Reunification in the 1990s

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Member

Member

Member

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Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

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Established Member