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Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

ilkestonian

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As most people realise.... I suppose thats an easy assumption to make on a clearly left opinionated forum. People do forget though that there is a hell of a lot of support for him out there in the real world too. He speaks what a lot of people think, and because he has the balls to do that, people feel the need to float a childish blimp around london in some sort of pathetic argument. If Clinton had won, we would be in the middle of a world war. She was a warmonger.
Well, you're entirely wrong if you categorise me as left wing. But I do prefer leaders not to be mysogonistic, thin skinned, egotistic, dishonest, corrupt, nepotistic and bullying.
And I agree with some of the other posters here. Trump is an unintended consequence of a dissatisfaction with the status quo. It in no way makes him right, or the right person to lead any country, let alone the world's most powerful.
 
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Bantamzen

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TM dived over to the US as soon as she could once Trump was inaugurated. She was desperate to attempt to put in place the foundations of a trade deal with the US as the Tories seemingly have an intense hatred of the EU and would much rather have closer ties with the US. This is despite the fact that the UK has nothing to offer the US apart from access to the NHS. Trump is engaged in a trade war with far far bigger economies than the UK and is putting in place protectionist policies. American healthcare companies having been trying to muscle in on the NHS for a very long time. The US Ambassador was quoted in saying that any trade deal with the US would have to involve allowing US healthcare access to the NHS. If that ever happens I believe you can kiss goodbye to your treatment free at the point of service within a decade. Pricking Trumps ego with a state visit that is costing the UK taxpayer serious amounts of money isn't going to result in a great trade for the UK post Brexit. Not unless the NHS is sold to the Americans.

This is my real worry about today. The whole Brexit situation & mismanagement has left us in something of a weakened position, and with the Tory leadership battle posed to be fought over Deal vs No-Deal & with Trump very pro-No-Deal, the risk exists that TM will leave the door wide open for someone like Johnson to waltz in on the promise to concentrate on a US deal over an EU one. This will leave the NHS vulnerable to being sold down the river to the US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies, whilst our food markets swamped with low grade, chlorine washed foods. Trump, or at least his administration know only too well that if they can lean on a future PM, they will open up the UK to their key industries, & sell this to the American people for the campaign next year.

For this last reason alone I would have preferred that the state visit to have been delayed until a new PM & cabinet were in place, because this whole thing is the perfect opportunity for Trump to get what he wants for little cost to him. Today could be a pivotal day for the future of our economic & health wellbeing, after a day that was all just pomp & circumstance.
 

433N

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This is my real worry about today. The whole Brexit situation & mismanagement has left us in something of a weakened position, and with the Tory leadership battle posed to be fought over Deal vs No-Deal & with Trump very pro-No-Deal, the risk exists that TM will leave the door wide open for someone like Johnson to waltz in on the promise to concentrate on a US deal over an EU one. This will leave the NHS vulnerable to being sold down the river to the US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies, whilst our food markets swamped with low grade, chlorine washed foods. Trump, or at least his administration know only too well that if they can lean on a future PM, they will open up the UK to their key industries, & sell this to the American people for the campaign next year.

And let us not forget that if in a post-Brexit world America is to be one of our main trading partners, they now currently have form for reneging on deals by the imposition of tariffs on a whim. Barely a whimper when Trump did this to Mexico last week but we should factor this in to how we see our glorious future with the US. To think that regaining our sovereignty will put us on our knees begging for scraps from the table of impetuous, moody, overlord Trump - laughable ; ever get the feeling you've been cheated.
 

Bantamzen

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And let us not forget that if in a post-Brexit world America is to be one of our main trading partners, they now currently have form for reneging on deals by the imposition of tariffs on a whim. Barely a whimper when Trump did this to Mexico last week but we should factor this in to how we see our glorious future with the US. To think that regaining our sovereignty will put us on our knees begging for scraps from the table of impetuous, moody, overlord Trump - laughable ; ever get the feeling you've been cheated.

To be honest, & I wish some of the hardcore Brexiteers would be on this, post-Brexit our trading relationships ought not to change that much, i.e. we continue with a negotiated deal with the EU & benefit from legacy deals with other nations until we revisit each one (which will take decades). As you say, any over-dependence on a bespoke US deal to keep us going will leave us at the whim of the orange one, and that is a place we don't want to go. Sadly Brexit has become much more than just a process of negotiating an amicable departure from the EU, it has become ideological, maybe even religious in some quarters to the point that there is no rationalising with those committed in their minds to no-deal. So now we are facing the real possibility of crashing out on the faint hope that the US will come riding in to save us..... <shudders>
 

ilkestonian

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To be honest, & I wish some of the hardcore Brexiteers would be on this, post-Brexit our trading relationships ought not to change that much, i.e. we continue with a negotiated deal with the EU & benefit from legacy deals with other nations until we revisit each one (which will take decades). As you say, any over-dependence on a bespoke US deal to keep us going will leave us at the whim of the orange one, and that is a place we don't want to go. Sadly Brexit has become much more than just a process of negotiating an amicable departure from the EU, it has become ideological, maybe even religious in some quarters to the point that there is no rationalising with those committed in their minds to no-deal. So now we are facing the real possibility of crashing out on the faint hope that the US will come riding in to save us..... <shudders>
Good points, but I think any potential deal with the US would always have been problematic. Look at Obama's reaction to the BP Gulf spillage.

His reaction was to encourage laying total blame at BPs door, didn't he say something about screweing them for every penny or some equally inappropriate quote? And nothing was done when all and sundry queued up for often fraudulent compensation.

The equally guilty US contractors seemed to get off Scot free.

So whilst I suspect anything Trump agrees isn't worth the paper it's written on, no deal with the US can be considered particularly beneficial.
 

greyman42

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And I agree with some of the other posters here. Trump is an unintended consequence of a dissatisfaction with the status quo. It in no way makes him right, or the right person to lead any country, let alone the world's most powerful.
So who would have been the right person to lead the USA after he won the election?
 

Dave1987

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TM looked VERY uncomfortable when the NHS was mentioned at their joint press conference, and Trump said that "everything" should be on the table when negotiating a trade deal. That could make life very difficult for all the candidates for the Tory leadership because Tory policy on privatisation and "selling off" of the NHS to the US private healthcare companies is bound to come up time and time again.
 

Smethwickian

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He will be in Portsmouth on Wednesday. I'm thinking of joining the milkshake throwing brigade
I cannot abide the racist, homophobic, sexist, corrupt, lying, nepotistic, bullying Trump and would rather that neither he nor indeed any of the wishy-washy, here-today-gone-tomorrow politicians were hogging the spotlight or given any credit at the D-Day anniversary commemorations, where the focus and respect should be given to the veterans and the comrades they lost. For that reason, although I have been pleased to see many people protesting against Trump's visit in London, I hope that his opponents show respect for the occasion and do not disturb or detract from the ceremonies by taking the protest to the south coast on Wednesday.
 

fowler9

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I cannot abide the racist, homophobic, sexist, corrupt, lying, nepotistic, bullying Trump and would rather that neither he nor indeed any of the wishy-washy, here-today-gone-tomorrow politicians were hogging the spotlight or given any credit at the D-Day anniversary commemorations, where the focus and respect should be given to the veterans and the comrades they lost. For that reason, although I have been pleased to see many people protesting against Trump's visit in London, I hope that his opponents show respect for the occasion and do not disturb or detract from the ceremonies by taking the protest to the south coast on Wednesday.
Totally 100% agree.
 

Mutant Lemming

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I cannot abide the racist, homophobic, sexist, corrupt, lying, nepotistic, bullying Trump and would rather that neither he nor indeed any of the wishy-washy, here-today-gone-tomorrow politicians were hogging the spotlight or given any credit at the D-Day anniversary commemorations, where the focus and respect should be given to the veterans and the comrades they lost. For that reason, although I have been pleased to see many people protesting against Trump's visit in London, I hope that his opponents show respect for the occasion and do not disturb or detract from the ceremonies by taking the protest to the south coast on Wednesday.

I actually think it best to ignore Trump altogether - he thrives on the attention and truly believes that no publicity is bad publicity, but would those people who sacrificed their lives to foil the tyranny of Hitler be happy to see the freedom of their grandchildren to protest stifled ?
 

Dave1987

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Some of the Tory leadership hopefuls have been very vehemently denying that the NHS will be on the table for UK - US trade talks. I think that the Tories are realising what a massive headache that could turn into for them. Many people in this country don't trust the Tories not to completely privatise the NHS and healthcare in this country and Trumps remarks do them no favours in trying to assuage those thoughts and fears.
 

Bantamzen

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Some of the Tory leadership hopefuls have been very vehemently denying that the NHS will be on the table for UK - US trade talks. I think that the Tories are realising what a massive headache that could turn into for them. Many people in this country don't trust the Tories not to completely privatise the NHS and healthcare in this country and Trumps remarks do them no favours in trying to assuage those thoughts and fears.

Interestingly one BBC correspondent has implied that Trump didn't know what the NHS stood for (!!) and backed off when TM quietly told him. However I seriously doubt this, Trump and his team must be more than aware what the NHS is given they have been talking in terms of getting access to it in any new deal. I think we can safely say at this stage that the NHS is not off the table, especially as one of the front runners Johnson doesn't seem to have dialled this back yet.
 

DerekC

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Interestingly one BBC correspondent has implied that Trump didn't know what the NHS stood for (!!) and backed off when TM quietly told him. However I seriously doubt this, Trump and his team must be more than aware what the NHS is given they have been talking in terms of getting access to it in any new deal. I think we can safely say at this stage that the NHS is not off the table, especially as one of the front runners Johnson doesn't seem to have dialled this back yet.

And don't forget that the (hugely exaggerated) problems of the NHS played a big part in Trump and general Republican campaigning against Obamacare - so Trump will be well aware of it and probably convinced that he will be doing us a favour if he can help replace it by a good old American profit making system.
 

Typhoon

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Some of the Tory leadership hopefuls have been very vehemently denying that the NHS will be on the table for UK - US trade talks. I think that the Tories are realising what a massive headache that could turn into for them. Many people in this country don't trust the Tories not to completely privatise the NHS and healthcare in this country and Trumps remarks do them no favours in trying to assuage those thoughts and fears.
I think that have got every right to be fearful. Even if involving US health companies does lead to wonderful improvements (which I doubt), there isn't time for this to happen before the next election. Any decent PR person from an opposition party simply needs to interview a few of the poor and a few 'liberal' doctors in the US, ask them about health care, put it on a party political broadcast and votes would haemorrhage from the Tory's. The alternative is early election (before trade talks) and risk Farage getting enough seats to hold the balance of power. Between the devil and the deep red sea.
 

mmh

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He will be in Portsmouth on Wednesday. I'm thinking of joining the milkshake throwing brigade

I'd guess this is internet bravado and you wouldn't actually try this, but I'm afraid even suggesting hijacking such a sombre event as a D-Day memorial won't endear anyone but the people with the most extreme cases of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

There are times and places to demonstrate, today was as far from one as you could possibly get.
 

ilkestonian

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Interestingly one BBC correspondent has implied that Trump didn't know what the NHS stood for (!!) and backed off when TM quietly told him. However I seriously doubt this, Trump and his team must be more than aware what the NHS is given they have been talking in terms of getting access to it in any new deal.
I would not make the assumption I have highlighted in the quote. I agree his team probably know what the NHS is but it is well documented that Trump himself has the attention span of a gnat with ADHD and struggles to read and focus on single page summaries of important issues. So when asked about this at the news conference I very much believe he simply assumed it was a company or organisation he could attempt to stiff (which is what Trump means by making a deal)
 

yorkie

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He speaks what a lot of people think...
I have no doubt he 'speaks what a lot of' what your acquaintances think, but to say that is far removed from my experience can't be stated strongly enough.
... a clearly left opinionated forum....
Knowing how far you are to the 'right', I would say you'd struggle to find many 'forums*' that are not a long way to your left; and obvious that you do find that meet your requirements will clearly have a purpose far removed from railways or anything else that might remotely interest me!

* Though I am mildly amused by the suggestion that a forum itself can be 'left' or 'right'; clearly you mean the majority of contributors to it.
 

Mutant Lemming

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There are times and places to demonstrate, today was as far from one as you could possibly get.


Stop trying to gain some holier than thou moral high ground - people fought that war so that anyone who wants to oppose your view on it can damn well do so if they want to. NOT being allowed to demonstrate would be the biggest insult to those who have gave their lives.
 

mmh

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I would not make the assumption I have highlighted in the quote. I agree his team probably know what the NHS is but it is well documented that Trump himself has the attention span of a gnat with ADHD and struggles to read and focus on single page summaries of important issues.

You were making a reasonable comment until you went into full-on "it's Trump, must insult" nonsense.

Why do people do this?
 

jon0844

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Interestingly one BBC correspondent has implied that Trump didn't know what the NHS stood for (!!) and backed off when TM quietly told him. However I seriously doubt this, Trump and his team must be more than aware what the NHS is given they have been talking in terms of getting access to it in any new deal. I think we can safely say at this stage that the NHS is not off the table, especially as one of the front runners Johnson doesn't seem to have dialled this back yet.

Considering Trump was talking in Ireland about a wall, I am sure he could have forgotten what the NHS was/is.
 

AlterEgo

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Stop trying to gain some holier than thou moral high ground - people fought that war so that anyone who wants to oppose your view on it can damn well do so if they want to. NOT being allowed to demonstrate would be the biggest insult to those who have gave their lives.

I don’t think people fought WWII with the idea that in the future, people will detract from a day devoted to their own sacrifices with childish protests involving an inflatable president in a nappy.

I think many people would be surprised to know the motivations of soldiers who fought in that war. The postwar consensus and our idea of postwar liberalism literally didn’t exist in anyone’s mind - and Britain was in the war to preserve her place at the table when the war was over and the superpowers were carving up the spoils.

Britain did excellent things in WWII but please don’t slap people down with the misconception that people literally died for the right to do X Y or Z. Most soldiers were conscripts.
 

GusB

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You were making a reasonable comment until you went into full-on "it's Trump, must insult" nonsense.

Why do people do this?
Because the man is a complete and utter moron. He was only "some American tycoon with a high-profile divorce" to me until he decided that he'd take a pristine bit of Aberdeenshire coastline and turn it into one of his golfing theme parks. He basically decreed that because the local residents were unwilling to sell-up, he'd make their lives a nightmare by cutting off water supplies and building huge "bunds" to prevent neighbouring properties getting daylight. His security teams used heavy-handed tactics to obstruct people who were simply going about their daily business, and there was one case where some poor woman who felt the call of nature and simply had to "go" in the dunes was filmed by said security staff.
And now he's president of the USA. How in the name of whichever deity you care to mention did that happen?

Trump doesn't care who he insults or belittles. Why on earth should we give any consideration to his feelings? If he has any.
 

jon0844

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It seems those who were alive during the war are very much remainers. It's those born during or shortly after the war that seem to think Europe is evil and we must leave (although didn't probably care one way or another before the referendum as most, if not all, talk of the EU was about dodgy bananas or something trivial).

I think the figures were remain for 84 or 85 years and over, while those under were leave.
 

mmh

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Stop trying to gain some holier than thou moral high ground - people fought that war so that anyone who wants to oppose your view on it can damn well do so if they want to. NOT being allowed to demonstrate would be the biggest insult to those who have gave their lives.

They didn't do anything of the kind, and I didn't suggest they did. Stop politicising the dead.
 

mmh

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It seems those who were alive during the war are very much remainers. It's those born during or shortly after the war that seem to think Europe is evil and we must leave (although didn't probably care one way or another before the referendum as most, if not all, talk of the EU was about dodgy bananas or something trivial).

I think the figures were remain for 84 or 85 years and over, while those under were leave.

I know people like to think it's all-important, but what relevance does the EU have here?
 

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