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ECML closed PBO to KGX Aug Bank Holiday routing

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DarloRich

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That's a Sunday though, it has to stop at all of the EMT stations, plus it's a 2 track railway south of Bedford.
It probably went via Nottingham as well.

If it's limited stop via Derby it should only be around 2hrs 45

It did not go via Nottingham. It went via Derby. (North bound on an evening often runs via Nottingham)

Would your extra service not just replicate that routing/stopping pattern in order to compensate for eating up an EMT path?
 
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cactustwirly

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It did not go via Nottingham. It went via Derby. (North bound on an evening often runs via Nottingham)

Would your extra service not just replicate that routing/stopping pattern in order to compensate for eating up an EMT path?

Oh right, the 0950 LDS - STP runs via Nottingham and takes 4 hours, but the 1050 runs via Derby and takes about 3.
Remember that the current Leeds services don't exactly have the best paths being late at night/Sundays
Nope, it would use a modified Sheffield fast path, which is extended to Leeds, which is about 2 hours to Sheffield (Saturday & bank holiday Monday)
 

Cherry_Picker

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But its a bank holiday weekend - are people supposed to stay at home? If all efforts are being made as you say to strengthen services on other routes and provide lots of RBBs etc, why should people not travel? Advertise the alternatives and then let people make up their own minds. Making a statement in capitals "DO NOT TRAVEL" implies the industry has thrown in the towel.

If the work has got to be done then at least the railway has the decency to do it during a bank holiday weekend when they won't be making it impossible for thousands of commuters to get to work.
 

cactustwirly

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ok. Is there capacity to do that?

There should be a reduced service through Wakefield Westgate, so I don't see why not?
A HST on a Sheffield service would need the timetable tweeking, as a HST cannot meet the current times
 

ashkeba

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So the RRBs are really more for Peterborough passengers towards London. The RRB would likely be faster than via Leicester, and likely more comfortable too.
Are they using better buses now, then? Most of them make all the complaints about railway seat cushions, pitch, window view and bouncy ride quality seem insignificant in comparison.

RRB may be faster than via Leicester, but I'm not sure why LNER don't divert some services to turn at Ely or Cambridge for connections to Liverpool Street. The small Stansted, Norwich and Ipswich trains (to connect at Cambridge (Stansted) or Ely) using Peterborough-Ely seem likely to be even more rammed than usual otherwise.

You might think an obvious option would be to divert Peterborough passengers onto the Stagecoach X4 bus to Corby/Kettering to join MML services, but that's a mislabelled service that's an insult to the limited-stop express bus concept, stopping at clusters of rural houses, skipping both rail stations and taking ~70 minutes to do 30 miles.
 

hwl

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Are they using better buses now, then? Most of them make all the complaints about railway seat cushions, pitch, window view and bouncy ride quality seem insignificant in comparison.

RRB may be faster than via Leicester, but I'm not sure why LNER don't divert some services to turn at Ely or Cambridge for connections to Liverpool Street. The small Stansted, Norwich and Ipswich trains (to connect at Cambridge (Stansted) or Ely) using Peterborough-Ely seem likely to be even more rammed than usual otherwise.

You might think an obvious option would be to divert Peterborough passengers onto the Stagecoach X4 bus to Corby/Kettering to join MML services, but that's a mislabelled service that's an insult to the limited-stop express bus concept, stopping at clusters of rural houses, skipping both rail stations and taking ~70 minutes to do 30 miles.
Peterborough - Ely - Cambridge capacity is bit limited overall and route trained freight drivers will presumably be in short supply with the number of engineering trains over that weekend
 

cactustwirly

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Are they using better buses now, then? Most of them make all the complaints about railway seat cushions, pitch, window view and bouncy ride quality seem insignificant in comparison.

RRB may be faster than via Leicester, but I'm not sure why LNER don't divert some services to turn at Ely or Cambridge for connections to Liverpool Street. The small Stansted, Norwich and Ipswich trains (to connect at Cambridge (Stansted) or Ely) using Peterborough-Ely seem likely to be even more rammed than usual otherwise.

You might think an obvious option would be to divert Peterborough passengers onto the Stagecoach X4 bus to Corby/Kettering to join MML services, but that's a mislabelled service that's an insult to the limited-stop express bus concept, stopping at clusters of rural houses, skipping both rail stations and taking ~70 minutes to do 30 miles.

The services that stop at Kettering are very busy 4/5 car 222s.
And Corby only gets 1tph
 

43055

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By way of contrasting attitudes to alleviating disruption, Derby City council have closed part of the A52 for 13 months while they replace a bridge. This has essentially gridlocked Derby for the coming year. The evening traffic has made the news with previously 10 minute journeys taking 2+ hrs.

The council spokesman is on record as saying, “It is what it is.”
Derby has been a nightmare this week. At points it is quicker to walk than drive.
The only realistic slot I could think of using would be extending the EMT Corbys to Peterborough, but I've no idea if it would work.
Another option is to extend the Nottingham HST to Grantham if paths and platforming would allow at Grantham. I think this has been done before. *Then remembers LNER are going via Lincoln*

Looking at RTT Hull trains is running 3 journeys to St Pancras on Saturday and Sunday running non stop from Goole via chesterfield and the MML.
 

philjo

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It is the Ashes test match at Headingley that weekend so there will be a lot of people heading to Leeds. I got my tickets last September and was planning to travel to Leeds early on the Saturday morning. When I heard about the line closure a couple of months ago I also booked to stay in Leeds on the Friday. Fortunately there is a 2-hourly LNER service back to Stevenage on the Monday, diverted via Gainsborough.
 

ashkeba

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Could you extend an MML service to Peterborough?
Continue the Corbys to reverse at Oakham? Rebuild the line through Morcott and ramp it up to connect to the Welland Viaduct? Sorry, I'll put the crayons down...
 

Haywain

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All the talk of extending EMT services to various points ignores the fact that EMT would need additional drivers, guards etc to operate such trains. Alongside this suggestions that LNER extend services to places such as Ely or Cambridge ignore factors like available platform capacity, even if trains were available - with services being diverted via Lincoln they will need to be diesels, and LNER have a limited number of those. The only thing in favour of such ideas for LNER is that they do have crews with appropriate route knowledge.
 

ainsworth74

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Peterborough - Ely - Cambridge capacity is bit limited overall and route trained freight drivers will presumably be in short supply with the number of engineering trains over that weekend
I could be wrong but I have a feeling LNER sign it so don't need conducting.
 

ashkeba

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Alongside this suggestions that LNER extend services to places such as Ely or Cambridge ignore factors like available platform capacity, even if trains were available - with services being diverted via Lincoln they will need to be diesels, and LNER have a limited number of those. The only thing in favour of such ideas for LNER is that they do have crews with appropriate route knowledge.
Should be spare platform capacity at Cambridge from all the Kings Cross and Thameslink services that can't run because ECML closed. Lack of diesels may be a blocker, granted.
 

Haywain

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Should be spare platform capacity at Cambridge from all the Kings Cross and Thameslink services that can't run because ECML closed.
Mostly in the south end bay platforms though, so not very helpful.
 

eastdyke

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At the 'micro' level, there are no trains at all at Newark, with EMT running buses Lincoln-Nottingham, Lincoln-Newark and Newark-Nottingham. There should be 2-3 displaced units which could be used to strengthen some of the Nottingham-Norwich services.
According to journey planner, the normally 11 minute journey Northgate-Grantham will be over 2 hours, starting with a walk to Castle for a bus to Nottingham and then train to Grantham.
This also affects journeys to Peterborough and East Anglia (but not to London which are routed bus to Nottingham then MML).
I am a little dis-appointed that the 2 TOCs have not apparently agreed for the buses to Nottingham to start at Northgate.

Interestingly some journeys Lincoln-London are routed Peterborough-Leicester/MML (off the sparse EMT Lincoln-Peterborough services which themselves may need more than a single 153).

I for one will be heading the headline advice :|
 

Aictos

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I could be wrong but I have a feeling LNER sign it so don't need conducting.

As that's a signed diversionary route for Kings Cross depot then yes they wouldn't need conducting at all, not sure on Leeds or Newcastle depots tho...
 

Kite159

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Some of those Hull Train diverts are a bit odd, i.e. on the Saturday morning one calls at Brough then to the public timetable runs non-stop to St Pancras. Another goes via Goole. I would imagine the loading on that 05:53 Hull - St Pancras will be low.

[although I will admit the chance of a fast 180/HST from St Pancras on the MML towards Brough is a bit tempting mainly for the novelty factor]
 

Tetchytyke

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Are they using better buses now, then?

Better than an overcrowded 2-car 170!

I'm not sure why LNER don't divert some services to turn at Ely or Cambridge for connections to Liverpool Street.

The Cambridge diverts the other year added 60 minutes to the journey time, and that was non-stop and on the faster route via Foxton. Factor in the change time at Cambridge and the longer journey time to Liverpool Street and you're looking at 90-100 minutes extended journey time. And then add in the Lincoln divert too...

From Yorkshire and the north east you'd go via the MML or Manchester or Birmingham, from Scotland you'd go via the WCML. And Cambridge-Liverpool St will be overcrowded as it is.

with services being diverted via Lincoln they will need to be diesels, and LNER have a limited number of those

They can drag the 91s like they have done previously, at least as far as Peterborough (are they cleared via Ely, I don't know).

According to journey planner, the normally 11 minute journey Northgate-Grantham will be over 2 hours

RRBs not loaded yet, I don't think.
 

ainsworth74

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Some of those Hull Train diverts are a bit odd, i.e. on the Saturday morning one calls at Brough then to the public timetable runs non-stop to St Pancras. Another goes via Goole. I would imagine the loading on that 05:53 Hull - St Pancras will be low.

I suspect that this is data issue. They're not open for booking yet (well APs anyway) so I'm relatively certain that once they do open up all the usual stations to Doncaster will be bookable.
 

Tetchytyke

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If they did extend the Corby service to Peterborough then they would have to reverse at Leicester which takes times and isn’t likely to happen.

Thanks, I've no idea about the infrastructure down there, though could they reverse at Oakham or Melton?
 

Kite159

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I suspect that this is data issue. They're not open for booking yet (well APs anyway) so I'm relatively certain that once they do open up all the usual stations to Doncaster will be bookable.

Might be, although not having Doncaster as a public call might be better for Hull Trains to avoid the little 5-coach 180s (or 2+5 HST) getting swamped. At least having them 'fast' to Selby/Goole/Brough might reduce loadings.
 

ainsworth74

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Might be, although not having Doncaster as a public call might be better for Hull Trains to avoid the little 5-coach 180s (or 2+5 HST) getting swamped. At least having them 'fast' to Selby/Goole/Brough might reduce loadings.

True, I could see that happening. But there's no way they're not going to call at Selby it would be crackers not to. Though depending on how many services they intend to run and 180 availability they might just run 10-car!
 

Kite159

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True, I could see that happening. But there's no way they're not going to call at Selby it would be crackers not to. Though depending on how many services they intend to run and 180 availability they might just run 10-car!

10 coach 180s would be a novelty for Hull Trains!

RTT is showing 3 trains each way, so probably one will be a single 180, the other being a pair with the 3rd being the hired in HST.

It seems odd that there is a couple of the services with public calls showing at Goole, maybe unconfirmed engineering works around Temple Hurst (?) junction
 
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Tetchytyke

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Just seen the WCML is restricted all weekend too, with only 1tph running to each of Scotland, Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool.

That's proper planning!
 
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