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Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

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jon0844

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mmh said:
I know people like to think it's all-important, but what relevance does the EU have here?
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In the UK, it's now the most important thing ever. All you see and hear is about Brexit. And Trump has always said we should just up and leave, and ignore paying out dues (as if that puts us in a good position to negotiate deals with the EU). Look at the connections with Farage and now the NHS and it's all very connected.

Brexit is going to be very good for a lot of people. Just not, likely, those who voted for it. Trump thinks like a business man, and if we followed his advice then I think we'd all be in rather a lot of trouble as he will look out for himself. He has no issue with trade wars with the likes of China, so what chance will we have?
 
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Typhoon

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jon0844 said:
Brexit is going to be very good for a lot of people. Just not, likely, those who voted for it. Trump thinks like a business man, and if we followed his advice then I think we'd all be in rather a lot of trouble as he will look out for himself. He has no issue with trade wars with the likes of China, so what chance will we have?
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At our peril we forget his mantra, "It's America First. America First".
 
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I

ilkestonian

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mmh said:
... full-on "it's Trump, must insult" nonsense.

Why do people do this?
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I simply used a phrase to emphasise his lack of attention and add a little colour. And if you think it's a full on insult and he doesn't deserve it, then all you need to do is listen to him or read just a small selection of his Tweets to realise it's nothing compared to his way of referring to people. So it's hard not to be unpleasant when thinking about or referring to such an obnoxious character.

Oops, I've just done it again...
 
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433N

433N

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jon0844 said:
Brexit is going to be very good for a lot of people. Just not, likely, those who voted for it. Trump thinks like a business man, and if we followed his advice then I think we'd all be in rather a lot of trouble as he will look out for himself. He has no issue with trade wars with the likes of China, so what chance will we have?
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Yeah, but he dunt speak forin, so he must be are frend, innit ?
 
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Geezertronic

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yorkie said:
* Though I am mildly amused by the suggestion that a forum itself can be 'left' or 'right'; clearly you mean the majority of contributors to it.
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This forum should give users the option of displaying their forum name on either the left or right of the screen depending on their political allegiance. Those who do not want to say should have their forum name in the middle covering the posts

tongue in cheek of course :)
 
najaB

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Interesting one...

Trump appears in front of altered presidential seal saying '45 is a puppet'

WASHINGTON – Speaking on Tuesday at a student activist conference hosted by the conservative advocacy organization Turning Point USA, President Donald Trump walked onstage in front of a presidential seal that, upon closer examination, appears to have been altered to include symbols representing Russia and golf.

The Washington Post first reported on the altered seal. As Trump walked onstage to a cheering audience, two presidential seals flashed on screen. The seal directly behind Trump was the authentic presidential seal. One of the seals, however, was not like the others.

Upon closer examination, the seal on Trump's right includes a double-headed eagle, unlike the single head of the traditional presidential seal, and seems to resemble the Russian coat of arms. The seal has a complex history, notes the Victoria and Albert Museum, but one of the more common interpretations is that the two heads represent east and west, "an allegory sometimes for unity, and sometimes for absolute monarchy." It could be a reference to Trump's sometimes-controversial relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
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jon0844

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It came out this week that if it were not for some memo, Trump would have been indicted over the contents of the Mueller report, yet Trump is allowed to keep saying it found him innocent and his supporters therefore believing it.

I know over here we've had our own problems, but these problems will be shared now Boris and Donald are starting talks on their fabulous trade deals. Like how much of the NHS Trump can buy, what he can do to sell us weapons, and what jams we can sell them.

I get that people are now getting tired of learning what Trump has done this time, but it is precisely the wrong time to get bored and let down our guard.
 
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Bantamzen

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jon0844 said:
It came out this week that if it were not for some memo, Trump would have been indicted over the contents of the Mueller report, yet Trump is allowed to keep saying it found him innocent and his supporters therefore believing it.

I know over here we've had our own problems, but these problems will be shared now Boris and Donald are starting talks on their fabulous trade deals. Like how much of the NHS Trump can buy, what he can do to sell us weapons, and what jams we can sell them.

I get that people are now getting tired of learning what Trump has done this time, but it is precisely the wrong time to get bored and let down our guard.
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Its worse than that, Muller himself said that Trump could be indicted once he was no longer President. The memo basically said that in the opinion of the Office of Legal Council indicting a sitting President "would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions". So Trump could still potentially face action, just not whilst he holds one of the most important positions in the US & even the world. And even if action were taken in 2020 or 2024, Trump's army of lawyers would more than likely tie up the DOJ in years of legal wrangling long enough for Trump to get far, far away from any form of justice.

This of course assumes that Trump will one day no longer be President, and he hasn't turned the US into a North Korea like dictatorship to be run for all time by the Trumps....
 
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Breaking story from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us..._central&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter
Formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump to be launched by Democrats - US media reports

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly.
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Updated:
Democrats will open a formal impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump over claims that he sought political help from Ukraine, US media reports say.

The decision by top Democrat Nancy Pelosi follows growing demands from her party.

Mr Trump has denied impropriety but has acknowledged discussing political rival Joe Biden with the Ukrainian president.

No US president has ever been removed from office by impeachment.

There has been no official confirmation from Ms Pelosi, who as House Speaker is the most senior Democrat. But an announcement is due shortly.

What is this row about?
Last week reports said US intelligence officials had complained to a government watchdog about Mr Trump's interactions with a foreign leader, who was later revealed to be the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky.

That whistleblower's complaint - which was deemed "urgent" and credible by the intelligence inspector general - has been demanded by Democrats in Congress, but the White House and Department of Justice have refused to provide it.

During meetings at the United Nations General Assembly meetings in New York on Tuesday, Mr Trump tweeted that an "unredacted" transcript of a call to Mr Zelensky will be released on Wednesday.

Mr Trump has acknowledged discussing Joe Biden, the Democratic frontrunner to take him on in 2020, with Mr Zelensky.

But Mr Trump maintains was not withholding aid to Ukraine in the hopes the country would open an investigation into the former vice-president and his son, Hunter Biden, insisting he only wanted Europe to step up assistance to the Eastern European country.

Mr Trump has claimed without evidence that the former vice-president intervened to have a Ukrainian prosecutor removed for investigating Mr Biden's son, who sits on the board of directors of a Ukrainian energy company.
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GusB

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For some time I was in a state of total disbelief - first we had Trump as President of the US, and then Johnson as Prime Minister of the UK. It still feels like a nightmare, to be honest, but there is some hope in that these odious characters might just get their comeuppance.
 
DynamicSpirit

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Cowley said:
I’d love to see this happen.
What are the chances of success do we think?
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Roughly zero. Impeachment requires the Senate to conduct the actual trial. And the Senate is still controlled by the Republicans, most of whom are never going to vote against Trump. Worse, from what I've read, impeachment is not popular amongst the US public. If it gets seen as Democrats just trying to nail trump, then it could increase his popularity, and therefore increase his chances in the next election.

I'm pretty sure Trump fully deserves impeachment (and more), but I fear this could just play into his hands :-
 
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Bantamzen

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DynamicSpirit said:
Roughly zero. Impeachment requires the Senate to conduct the actual trial. And the Senate is still controlled by the Republicans, most of whom are never going to vote against Trump. Worse, from what I've read, impeachment is not popular amongst the US public. If it gets seen as Democrats just trying to nail trump, then it could increase his popularity, and therefore increase his chances in the next election.

I'm pretty sure Trump fully deserves impeachment (and more), but I fear this could just play into his hands :-
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That was probably true up until the Ukraine whistle-blower. What is now being alleged is very serious, and even the Republicans are having problems batting this off, most who have been asked are being very cautious in what they say until the transcript and more importantly a possible testimony from the whistle-blower coming soon. If there is substance to this, especially after the Muller report, opinion on impeachment will rapidly move especially amongst Republicans. They are only two aware that their predecessors stood firmly behind Nixon right up until he was airlifted off the White House lawn for the last time, and that the next year they were routed on Capitol Hill. Even El Presidente's media outlet Fox News are starting to struggle backing him, with more of their commentators starting to question him.

What we are talking about here is a president attempting to force a leader of another country, one effectively at war with Russia, to get evidence whether it exists or not that a political opponent, and/or members of his family, to aid him in the 2020 election. In other words he wants another country to interfere with the election, something he has constantly claimed did not happen in 2016. This has now reached Watergate level.
 
najaB

najaB

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Cowley said:
What are the chances of success do we think?
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That he will be impeached - almost 100% certain. Then, as @DynamicSpirit says there is still doubt about what will happen with the trial in the Senate. The 45 Democratic senators are almost certain to vote to find him guilty, as will the two Independents. We've already seen cracks in the Republican wall and there are more Republican seats up for re-election in 2020 than Democratic.

I'm not so sure that he can count on solid support in the Senate.

And at this point, not impeaching is probably worse politically than impeaching and failing. For the Democrats to fail to act would be to approve of his behaviour and encourage him to do worse if he were to be re-elected. It is possible to fight an election campaign and conduct impeachment proceedings, we can only hope that the Democrats are up to the challenge.
 
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jon0844

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After he had a go at Fox recently, and Fox is now starting to turning on him, I think there comes a point where there will be an agreement amongst sections of the media and Republicans to throw Trump under the bus.
 
Cowley

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jon0844 said:
After he had a go at Fox recently, and Fox is now starting to turning on him, I think there comes a point where there will be an agreement amongst sections of the media and Republicans to throw Trump under the bus.
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Well let’s hope so. The thought of him winning another term is terrifying.
 
ComUtoR

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After reading the 'transcript' of the call; I very much doubt he will get impeached based on what he said. No matter how much I would enjoy seeing him go, I doubt they will ever succeed in removing him. He has got away with so much for so long and still they have protected him. If the Mueller couldn't remove him, I doubt anything will.
 
najaB

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ComUtoR said:
After reading the 'transcript' of the call; I very much doubt he will get impeached based on what he said.
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I would not trust that transcript in the slightest. They've lied about much less substantial things.
 
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It is very much not a transcript and is very much a memo and a memo very much released by the White House. Indeed the following warning appears at the foot of page one:

CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation.· (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty "Officers and-NSC policy staff assigned t_o listen.and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect 'the accuracy of the reco�d, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation. The word "inaudible" is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable to hear.
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ComUtoR

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Which is why I put it in inverted commas. :)

There has now been a *leaked email with their 'talking points'

*leaked, as in sent to the wrong people and then tried to recall. Pure comedy gold.
 
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najaB said:
I would not trust that transcript in the slightest. They've lied about much less substantial things.
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The first thing that struck about that memo was just how much the President of Ukraine spoke so much like the President of the US. Lots of use of the word "beautiful", something the great orange one uses with impunity when he talks about discussions with his favour dictators, erm I mean world leaders....
 
najaB

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As is often the case, the cover-up is worse than the crime...

In the days following the phone call, I learned from multiple U.S. officials that senior White House officials had intervened to "lock down" all records of the phone call, especially the official word-for-word transcript of the call that was produced-as is customary-by the White House Situation Room. This set of actions underscored to me that White House officials understood the gravity of what had transpired in the call.

• White House officials told me that they were "directed" by White House lawyers to
remove the electronic transcript from the computer system in which such transcripts are
typically stored for coordination, finalization, and distribution to Cabinet-level officials.

• Instead, the transcript was loaded into a separate electronic system that is otherwise used to store and handle classified information of an especially sensitive nature. One White House official described this act as an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective.
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