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Food & Drink on the railway

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Saperstein

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Hi,

Why is food and drink so dear on the train and at stations?

It’s almost as bad as at airports, but why?

Surely they should encourage public transport ?
 
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geoffk

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Captive market I suppose, at least on the train - same as airports.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Captive market, supply and demand. Typical of the capitalist society that modern day Western world thrives in....

Could be down to higher cost base from retail unit rents or for cost of dedicated logistics supplies, staffing and equipment maintenance for on board
 

yorkie

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Captive market, supply and demand. Typical of the capitalist society that modern day Western world thrives in....
no, it's a UK thing. It's not like this in any other Western European country I've been to!
 

Facing Back

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On the trains for sure but I haven't noticed that some of the shops in the station are more expensive. I was at Manchester Victoria recently and indulged in a Gregg's sausage roll (a guilty pleasure of mine) and it was the same price as you'd pay on the high street. It seemed the same with the M&S Food outlet there too.

I rarely buy on a train, I'll rely on the trolley if I'm in first with VTWC during the week or at a Sainsbury/M&S at the station before if not - but I do wince when I end up buying on the train.
 

ComUtoR

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I stopped off to get some fuel at a Motorway services.......

Capitalism and profiteering is everywhere.
 

Facing Back

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I stopped off to get some fuel at a Motorway services.......

Capitalism and profiteering is everywhere.
Well, the way the Tories are eating their young at the moment, a Marxist paradise seems less improbable than it once did. I'm sure Jeremy will make renationalising the service stations a priority once rail is done
 

3141

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I stopped off to get some fuel at a Motorway services.......

Capitalism and profiteering is everywhere.

No, it's economics. Supply and demand, and probably goes back for a few millenia. If the supply is limited and the demand is there, the price goes up. With a trolley on a train, there's somebody's wages to be paid and the trolley to be paid for and maintained out of the revenue from sales.

Fuel prices on motorways have always been high. If you know that and don't like it, fill up before you join the motorway. But alternatively you might decide it's worth paying a higher price (perhaps for a small amount of fuel) to avoid the inconvenience and extra time if you leave the motorway to look for a petrol station that's cheaper.

At railway stations, particularly the larger ones, Network Rail or the local TOC are charging a rent (probably high) for the premises which someone or some company is prepared to pay because they calculate that passengers will be willing to pay higher prices which will enable them to make a profit after they've paid the higher rent and all the other costs of running their food outlet. We don't have to pay those prices. We could make our own sandwiches before we set out from home. But many people find it easier not to think about food for the journey till they get to the station, and then blame capitalism, privatisation, Brexit (or the lack of it), climate change, you name it....
 

ComUtoR

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Fuel prices on motorways have always been high. If you know that and don't like it, fill up before you join the motorway.

It's not just fuel. Pretty much everything has a premium added to it. Is a can of coke limited in it's supply ?

I used to work in retail and my first job we used to add a fixed % to various goods around the store. My local Tesco does the same. Because they are a Tesco Metro they add a % premium.

The basic rule is simple. Charge as much as you can get away with.
 

Dr Hoo

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There is plenty of 'expensive' food and drink to be had in the world. I have never thought of this as being a purely 'railways in Britain' issue. In many cases the actual logistics of provision are awkward and the potential revenue very limited. If you have a big supermarket in a large town you have plenty of economies of scale and plenty of customers willing to spend £££, not just on a coffee or sandwich, over a long day. If you have a kiosk on a suburban station the stock probably has to be humped over footbridges in small quantities and your potential customers are only around in significant numbers for a couple of hours per day. Many of them will eat before their short journey or afterwards and thus not really be potential anyway. Any fresh items, such as pastries or sandwiches, are likely to have high levels of wastage. Things are even more difficult on trains, especially in terms of deploying staff productively.
 
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Matt_pool

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no, it's a UK thing. It's not like this in any other Western European country I've been to!

I agree with this. When travelling by train around Europe I still took my own food and drink on board, but on the odd occasion I did use the buffet car I was surprised at how cheap they were, plus the food and drink was of a very good quality.

In Poland they even came through the train with free coffee, tea, fruit juice, water and biscuits; and this was in standard class!

The buffet on Eurostar is bloody expensive though!
 

johntea

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Sainsbury’s in Leeds station seems to charge an extra 5-10p compared to leaving the station and visiting one of the other ten million Sainsbury’s Local branches dotted around the centre!
 

Statto

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Sainsbury’s in Leeds station seems to charge an extra 5-10p compared to leaving the station and visiting one of the other ten million Sainsbury’s Local branches dotted around the centre!

I don't mind paying the extra 5-10p, as i expect a mark up at stations & on board, it's when you paying nearer £2 for a 500ml bottle of soft drink/water[see WH Smith pricing] & the like, when you can get a full size bottle & sometimes more for that if you know where to shop & can stock up in advance, that's my main bugbear
 

diffident

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I don't mind paying the extra 5-10p, as i expect a mark up at stations & on board, it's when you paying nearer £2 for a 500ml bottle of soft drink/water[see WH Smith pricing] & the like, when you can get a full size bottle & sometimes more for that if you know where to shop & can stock up in advance, that's my main bugbear

In quite a few other commercial and industrial sectors, this kind of pricing behaviour would be deemed "price gouging". Somehow in retail, no-body bats an eyelid!
 

Stampy

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A bottle of Volvic water in Peterborough station = £2.10
The same bottle from adjacent Waitrose branch = £0.95
 

Iskra

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It's not just fuel. Pretty much everything has a premium added to it. Is a can of coke limited in it's supply ?

I used to work in retail and my first job we used to add a fixed % to various goods around the store. My local Tesco does the same. Because they are a Tesco Metro they add a % premium.

The basic rule is simple. Charge as much as you can get away with.

Service stations are staffed 24/7 365 and they pay their staff more due to the cost of getting to the usually isolated locations and for working unsociable hours. Cleaners need paying too. Toilets have to be maintained and stocked. Many of these services aren’t busy at 3am on a Tuesday morning in January, but they still have to pay the staff...

Service station prices are definitely too high, but there are some reasons why prices should be higher than elsewhere, but yes there is a degree of profiteering. However, at least one MSA company’s accounts are available online and they don’t make a huge profit. Admittedly, that could be down to clever accounting and tax dodging.

Also on railways: rents are astronomical and depending on the station some stations are only busy M-F in the morning and evening peak, but passengers still expect their station to have facilities. On the way home people tend to walk straight past railway catering outlets. So prices may need to be higher to cover this, or alternatively outlets can cross-subsidise one another, Costa do that for example Retford station Costa will be subsidised by the other Costa’s on the LNER network, but it still charges the same prices. Other brands think differently and just up the prices across the board.
 
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xotGD

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To add to the Economics 101 wibble, may I introduce the Time-Cost-Quality triangle. In this instance we are working on the Time-Cost axis. You can either pay £2 for a bottle of water right now when you feel thirsty or wait until you arrive at your destination and pay £1, but by then you'll be absolutely parched.
 

LUYMun

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Don't want to take this off topic, but you can't drink alcohol on the London Underground. Is it still allowed on the railway network, though?
 

Iskra

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Don't want to take this off topic, but you can't drink alcohol on the London Underground. Is it still allowed on the railway network, though?

Yes, of course it is. There are many pubs and off licenses on stations and alcohol is available on board many trains. You can also bring your own on board, unless it is a designated ‘dry’ train.
 

Bletchleyite

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A bottle of Volvic water in Peterborough station = £2.10
The same bottle from adjacent Waitrose branch = £0.95

At Network Rail stations, filling your own bottle up with perfectly good tap water - £0.00. Should be installed at more stations, though I'm not convinced that they need the expense of the fancy electronic systems, a push tap and a sink would do the job!
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, of course it is. There are many pubs and off licenses on stations and alcohol is available on board many trains. You can also bring your own on board, unless it is a designated ‘dry’ train.

Some TOCs have blanket dry policies. Merseyrail does not allow alcohol to be consumed at any time (though unlike classic "dry trains" you can carry it unopened, e.g. in your shopping). ScotRail has a blanket "no consumption after 21:00" rule. LNR (and probably WMT) also has a blanket "not after 21:00" rule on Fridays and Saturdays which I believe includes carrying it as per classic "dry trains", though I'm not sure how heavily enforced it is - my observation is "not at all" out of Euston.

Edit: it looks like the latter blanket policy has been removed. Here's what the website now says:
https://www.londonnorthwesternrailw...ion/onboard-facilities/bringing-alcohol-board

TOCs generally only ban it where there's a problem, not least because they can make money flogging it themselves.
 

sharpley

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I spent a few days working at London Bridge during its reconstruction and Network Rail apparently charge £30k rent a month for a small retail unit there.
 

Tom B

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In the case of motorway fuel stations, I suspect that a fair percentage of users will be businessmen or fleet drivers with an allstar card, thus the person choosing to use that particular fuel station isn't the one paying.

I've seen a tin of 330ml coke at £2.25 before now. The wholesale price for that is something like 28p. (Doubtless, too, this will be much lower for a large business purchasing thousands of cans per annum).
 

mrmartin

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Definitely not a UK only thing. Ended up paying nearly €5 for a 500ml can of Kronenberg at Montpellier station last week. Which is significantly worse than the most expensive shops I've seen in UK railway stations.
 
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