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HS2: Bombardier and Hitachi bid to build trains

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bastien

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The Classic Compatibles are the difficult trains though, as they're unique to the UK and will have to deal with the loading gauge, signalling etc of the Classic network. If we were just ordering the Captive sets, they would be far easier as existing European high speed trains could be used with relatively minor modifications. The Eurostar Velaros are recognisably close cousins of those used elsewhere for example whereas the Class 373s are highly bespoke.
I wonder what has to be 'upgraded' between an 140mph train and a 250mph one? Is it a case of taking, say, an 800 body shell and adding uprated bogies, traction motors and so on, or does it need to be an entirely different design?
 

LOL The Irony

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I wonder what has to be 'upgraded' between an 140mph train and a 250mph one? Is it a case of taking, say, an 800 body shell and adding uprated bogies, traction motors and so on, or does it need to be an entirely different design?
Well for one, you're crashing at 110mph more, so the body needs to be stronger.
 

hwl

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I wonder what has to be 'upgraded' between an 140mph train and a 250mph one? Is it a case of taking, say, an 800 body shell and adding uprated bogies, traction motors and so on, or does it need to be an entirely different design?

The Bombardier Hitachi design uses a bodyshell based on the Italian Bombardier Zefiro bodyshell design (which is classic compatible for the Italian network and has a limited tilt solution). Hence nothing to do with 800s.

Massive changes are needed in terms of power braking aerodynamics noise suspension and crash worthyness hence it is a start from scratch.

The Zefiro 300 was a Bombardier Ansaldo co production with Ansaldo providing the Italian factory for final assembly and bodyshell manufacture. Hitachi later bought Ansaldo and the factory which is where the 802s are made.

An order for a second batch of 14 Zefiro 300 units was placed yesterday.

An HS2 order would see Hitachi installing friction stir welding equipment at Newton Aycliffe to enable bodyshell manufacture there to get the in UK content up.
 

MarlowDonkey

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or does it need to be an entirely different design?

A lot of the HS2 route will be in tunnels, so the trains with have to be able to cope with the aerodynamics of two trains passing at top speed whilst in a tunnel. Extremely long noses appears to be the outcome, according to Japanese experience.
 

hwl

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In recent years, Hitachi has struggled to adapt to the old infrastructure, but I think that the HS2 vehicle design can make the most of its experience, especially in the second phase.
It is a Bombardier design, IP and parts (traction equipment, suspension and bogies) but with bodyshell manufacture and final assembly by Hitachi
 

samuelmorris

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A lot of the HS2 route will be in tunnels, so the trains with have to be able to cope with the aerodynamics of two trains passing at top speed whilst in a tunnel. Extremely long noses appears to be the outcome, according to Japanese experience.
Are they not single bore tunnels?
 

hooverboy

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A lot of the HS2 route will be in tunnels, so the trains with have to be able to cope with the aerodynamics of two trains passing at top speed whilst in a tunnel. Extremely long noses appears to be the outcome, according to Japanese experience.
and slanted tunnel portals
 

squizzler

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It had better be a substantial (ie about 100 times) improvement on the dross (s)Hitachi are delivering for long distance trains currently.

I hear that the Hitachi designers are aware of many comments on here regarding the IET / Azumas and will be making appropriate adjustments to the interior of future stock. They will be installing plenty of hooks for handbags :)
 
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Mikey C

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Of course the beauty of a brand-new HSL with in-cab signalling and no level crossings is that you're far less likely to crash into things.

Until HS2 runs out and they have to continue up the WCML!
 

43096

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I hear that the Hitachi designers are aware of many comments on here regarding the IET / Azumas and will be making appropriate adjustments to the interior of future stock. They will be installing plenty of hooks for handbags.
You don’t hear that. You’re just being sarcastic.

Never mind that the IEPs are uncomfortable to the point of being painful and the ride is appalling. If you can’t cope with people having that opinion then maybe you should stop visiting here?
 

samuelmorris

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You don’t hear that. You’re just being sarcastic.

Never mind that the IEPs are uncomfortable to the point of being painful and the ride is appalling. If you can’t cope with people having that opinion then maybe you should stop visiting here?
Sarcasm isn't necessarily mocking your point of view.
 

option

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By the time HS2 is up and running, I'd expect it to have an 'instant reservations' system. Using a phone app to reserve a seat up to the second of departure, with TVMs (or similar) on platforms allowing you to reserve a seat up to a couple of minutes before departure.

It most likely will be operated like the airlines do, as in you book a seat, & you won't get past a ticket gate without a ticket/seat reservation.
They will be e-tickets.

Possibly/probably charge more for a 'flexible' ticket that allows you to make a seat reservation between buying the ticket & getting to the gate line.
 

squizzler

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You don’t hear that. You’re just being sarcastic.

Never mind that the IEPs are uncomfortable to the point of being painful and the ride is appalling. If you can’t cope with people having that opinion then maybe you should stop visiting here?

Thank you for bringing an error to my attention, I have amended the post to include a smiley!

I think it is unfair to base the judgement of a manufacturer on one design they produced (for a weird procurement arrangement).

I have not ridden one but gather I hear on this forum that the chairs are inferior. Thankfully First are running a railway service not DFS.
 

yorkie

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This thread is about HS2: Bombardier and Hitachi bid to build trains

This forum has plenty of capacity for new threads to be created to discuss any other topic.

Everyone is free to create a spin-off topic on any related matter if they wish, and place a link to that thread here if appropriate. Thanks :)
 

EE Andy b1

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Whoever does eventually get the contract to build Classic compatible HS2 rolling stock, i would hope that....

They are 250 MPH HS2 fast and 125 MPH at least, Classic lines.
They look a proper Intercity Ultra High Speed Train, livery.
They have passenger comforts. Good comfy seats/legroom. All with windows. Some with full tables.Most with fold down tables. Good luggage space.
They are pretty quiet inside, if not out.
Some sort of drinks/food service, shop and trolley. At seat paid for food service for all.
At seat entertainment, more akin to airlines.
Compulsory reservation upto departure time.
 

Japan0913

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The Bombardier Hitachi design uses a bodyshell based on the Italian Bombardier Zefiro bodyshell design (which is classic compatible for the Italian network and has a limited tilt solution). Hence nothing to do with 800s.

Massive changes are needed in terms of power braking aerodynamics noise suspension and crash worthyness hence it is a start from scratch.

The Zefiro 300 was a Bombardier Ansaldo co production with Ansaldo providing the Italian factory for final assembly and bodyshell manufacture. Hitachi later bought Ansaldo and the factory which is where the 802s are made.

An order for a second batch of 14 Zefiro 300 units was placed yesterday.

An HS2 order would see Hitachi installing friction stir welding equipment at Newton Aycliffe to enable bodyshell manufacture there to get the in UK content up.
I heard that Zefiro or ETR -1000 in Bombardier is made in Bilbo city in Spain, is that wrong? I'm sorry if I'm wrong.
 

hwl

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I heard that Zefiro or ETR -1000 in Bombardier is made in Bilbo city in Spain, is that wrong? I'm sorry if I'm wrong.
The Zefiro family has been made in a number of the factories in the ETR1000 case the Pistoia factory in Italy that was formerly owned by Ansaldo and now by Hitachi (where the 802s are assembled)
 

Adsy125

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Whoever does eventually get the contract to build Classic compatible HS2 rolling stock, i would hope that....

They are 250 MPH HS2 fast and 125 MPH at least, Classic lines.
They look a proper Intercity Ultra High Speed Train, livery.
They have passenger comforts. Good comfy seats/legroom. All with windows. Some with full tables.Most with fold down tables. Good luggage space.
They are pretty quiet inside, if not out.
Some sort of drinks/food service, shop and trolley. At seat paid for food service for all.
At seat entertainment, more akin to airlines.
Compulsory reservation upto departure time.
Out of curiosity, given that there is likely to be oodles of capacity on the new trains, why would you want compulsory reservations?
 

EE Andy b1

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Out of curiosity, given that there is likely to be oodles of capacity on the new trains, why would you want compulsory reservations?

My thought was as these will be longer distance Classic compatible HS2 trainsets that for a change it would be nice for everyone to have an allocated seat. Done with the right booking software you can still pick where you want to be. Would help with at seat food ordering and delivery as well.
You could perhaps have a couple of vehicles without reservations!
 

Japan0913

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The Zefiro family has been made in a number of the factories in the ETR1000 case the Pistoia factory in Italy that was formerly owned by Ansaldo and now by Hitachi (where the 802s are assembled)

Bombardier suministrará a Italia 14 trenes con propulsión española
12/06/2019
https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/2...italia-14-trenes-con-propulsion-espanola.html
Madrid, 12 jun (EFE).- Bombardier e Hitachi suministrarán 14 trenes de muy alta velocidad al operador ferroviario italiano Trenitalia, cuyos sistemas de propulsión y control se fabricarán en las instalaciones de la compañía canadiense en la localidad vizcaína de Trápaga.

Se trata de los trenes Frecciarossa 1000, también conocido como ETR 1000 o V300 Zefiro, y el contrato contempla, además, efectuar los trabajos de mantenimiento de los mismos por un periodo de 10 años, ha informado este miércoles Bombardier en un comunicado.

Las primeras entregas están previstas para el segundo semestre de 2020 y se espera que terminen en 2021, y el proyecto supone una carga de producción para la planta de Trápaga de hasta el 25 %.

El valor total de este contrato, que forma parte del acuerdo firmado en 2010 para el suministro de 50 trenes de muy alta velocidad, es de aproximadamente 575 millones de euros, estando la parte de Bombardier valorada en 233 millones de euros y la de Hitachi en 342 millones de euros.

Los equipos de propulsión y control, desarrollados desde Vizcaya, están diseñados para funcionar con hasta 4 tensiones de alimentación diferentes (25 kV y 15 kV en alterna, 3 kV y 1,5 kV en continua), permitiendo la homologación y operación en diferentes países de la Unión Europea.

El Frecciarossa 1000 se encuentra actualmente en fase de homologación para su operación entre Milán y París a partir de 2020.

Se trata de un vehículo de tracción distribuida, completamente interoperable. Cada tren mide alrededor de 200 metros y tiene capacidad para unos 460 pasajeros, y puede alcanzar velocidades comerciales de hasta 360 kilómetros por hora. EFE.
Among ETR -1000 of 14 SET that we received a joint order the other day,
It is said that the one in charge of Bombardier will be manufactured in Spain.
I'm sorry.

Are ETR -1000 and HS2 bidding cars almost the same?
 
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hwl

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Bombardier suministrará a Italia 14 trenes con propulsión española
12/06/2019
https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/2...italia-14-trenes-con-propulsion-espanola.html

Among ETR -1000 of 14 SET that we received a joint order the other day,
It is said that the one in charge of Bombardier will be manufactured in Spain.
I'm sorry.

Are ETR -1000 and HS2 bidding cars almost the same?

This article is clearer overall:

https://railway-news.com/hitachi-bombardier-14-etr1000-trains-trenitalia/

Their HS2 stock design is based on the ETR1000 / V300 design. The bodyshell cross section will be slightly smaller for HS2 e.g. 4cm less height
 
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