GTR need to run as many 12car 700s on the MML as possible then
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ECML closed PBO to KGX Aug Bank Holiday routing
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Shaw S Hunter
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So you don't dispute the accuracy of his post? Reality of internet fora is that people can post with whatever attitude they like so long as they stay within a particular forum's rules. If @DarloRich's attitude bothers you so much then ISTM you have two options: either keep an eye out for his posts and call him out if/when he gets something wrong or grow a thicker skin. Alternatively put him on your ignore list and never have to be bothered by him again. And for the record I often disagree with him but being exposed to all sorts of different viewpoints is half the fun of this place.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Hardly. I find it incredible that you need to be told that weekend and bank holidays see fewer travelers than a normal day in the working week.
steverailer
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Is everyone assuming that this is the only works being carried out on this weekend??
No doubt most other lines will have some sort of works happening, thus lowering their capacity. I'm guessing they'll be some closures on the MML for the electrification work, along with some on the WCML.
No doubt most other lines will have some sort of works happening, thus lowering their capacity. I'm guessing they'll be some closures on the MML for the electrification work, along with some on the WCML.
Back when I used the railway for leisure travel only, it was obvious that Friday night and all of Saturday/Sunday were much busier than Monday-Thursday nights, and therefore my my belief at the time was that weekends were busier than weekdays. Now that I commute and use peak-time weekday trains, it's obvious that I was wrong.
The Planner
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But he is correct though, when deciding access the TOCs say put it in weekends or bank holidays, if they are telling us that then you would assume that they know their passenger base and numbers?
Aictos
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My view exactly with Greater Anglia running as many 12 cars on the West Anglia route between Cambridge and London.
Even if this means reducing the Stansted Express to a 30 minute frequency to free up enough trains to use on the Cambridge services as the engineering works are far more important then the airport users.
RTT seems to have nothing south of Peterborough on the ECML, is KGX PSB fully closed for the works?
Steve Harris
Member
But as my mother says "manners cost nothing".
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The rules of this board allow for nothing other than polite, well mannered conversation!
That's going to be a long coach journey, plus tangled up with the mess of the A1/A14 work (let's hope there isn't a weekend closure there!). A 12x700 shuttle to St Neots and coach from there would be more friendly to passengers - I have seen SNO used as a turning point in extremis before...
The ECML is completely closed on the Saturday and Sunday between Peterborough and Kings Cross as well as Hitchin-Cambridge. I understand that the signalling control is being transferred from Kings Cross to York so no trains can run during this work. The line is also blocked at Newark due to works on the flat crossing.
Steve Harris
Member
Regarding the A1/A14 work, although the new A14 upgrade is not finished, most of the A1 work has been. The 40mph limit is long gone and its now 3 lanes on the southbound side and partially 3 lanes northbound.
The hold ups for the coach will be black cat roundabout.
As for turning at St Neots, this would need a shunt move as you can only get from the up lines to the down lines.
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ashkeba
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Traffic forecasts suggests that getting through Bedford town centre will probably incur bigger delays, but split into a few queues, not all in one as the Black Cat tends to be.
The replacement bus is timetabled as 70 minutes. Route planners suggest a spread of 55-85 minutes for a car. I don't think there's enough slack timetabled. The shortest link would have been Corby in 35-50 minutes but it has fewer trains.
RTT shows usual StanExp service. Only change is extension of one Stratford - Stortford through to Camb every hour stopping all stations north of Stortford, and stops at secondary stations removed from one of the two usual Camb to LivSt services an hour.
The all stations Stratford will be max 8 car due to short platforms at various of the secondary stations, the two other Camb-LivSt look like they should be able to run as 12 car v usual 8. So net effect is 4 x 4 car extra from Camb each hour. Better than nothing but not a lot compared with all the lost capacity to KX
Aictos
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Granted but for 72 hours, surely they can amend the Stansted Express to operate to a amended timetable running every half hour instead of every 15 minutes as 12 cars if need be.
Benjaminmorgan
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I want the Stratford to Cambridge to be a class 379 on the 24th of August
Indeed, and one of the forum's rules is that individuals should "respect" one another and contributepositively towards a "friendly environment". It is for others to judge whether or not these contributions fall into these parameters or not.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Let's hope the punters stick to GTR.
The EMT Meridians that stop at Bedford are normally very full as it is, without ECML blockades
Qwerty133
Established Member
Surely common sense would be for EMT to not stop at Bedford that weekend with replacement buses to and from Wellingborough for the small number of northbound passengers.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Ideal world GTR would run some fast services from Bedford using 12coach 700s. Maybe calling only at Luton and terminating in St Pancras high level, that would allow for crowd movers from the coaches.
If pathing is an issue cut back the Corby service to operate as a shuttle with additional calls for Kettering & Wellingborough put into another service
If pathing is an issue cut back the Corby service to operate as a shuttle with additional calls for Kettering & Wellingborough put into another service
Qwerty133
Established Member
Most definitely not high level. The high-level gates should be reprogrammed so that no-one with tickets to places south of Wellingborough can get through the barriers that weekend to allow EMT to pick up at Bedford without the risk of selfish people going to Bedford overcrowding the trains at the expense of those going further north. Ideally it would also be great if a platform could be isolated to allow southbound services to drop off at Bedford but realistically this isn't likely to be possible so EMT should look at some form of door control.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Pathing is still an issue as 700s can't do 125mph, also platform space at St Pancras HL might be an issue.
Plus there's all sorts of issues with adding additional calls onto other services.
Kite159
Veteran Member
So anybody from Bedford will have to use the local stopping service so any passengers from Harlington will end up standing all the way to St Pancras?
Why stop people from boarding at Bedford? That's pure selfishness to not want anyone else to get on the train you are already on, and to be left behind as a result. Some people (maybe not many, but some) will leave southbound trains at Bedford, why shouldn't anyone be able to replace them?
It's reasonable and realistic to enforce a northbound pick up only restriction in order to maximise capacity for long-distance passengers who might otherwise get left behind. This may well happen.
Qwerty133
Established Member
Quite frankly the presence or absence of a twice an hour (at most) EMT service at Bedford that usually uses 4 or 5 coach trains and is often already full and standing will have very little effect on whether passengers travelling solely south of Bedford will have to stand. Honestly the best option to prevent passengers from these stations standing would be a hourly service that doesn't start until the first station south of Bedford (running ECS to and from Bedford to allow reversals) with all other services running 'fast' south of Bedford and only stopping at Luton and or Airport Parkway but even that wouldn't be good enough as those in the south-east seemingly believe they are entitled to a better service than elsewhere in the country.
I don't think not knowing that is all that incredible. For example, an occasional traveller might only use the railways at bank holiday weekends. And when they inevitably find every other occasional traveller trying to do the same, and they can't get a seat because there's engineering works on another line, they conclude that that's when the railways are busiest.
Also, I do think it's easy to underestimate quite how many commuters actually travel every weekday, especially if you're not one of those doing the commute. I'm in no way disputing the fact that it's busier during the working week; I'm just saying it isn't necessarily obvious.
swt_passenger
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Regarding easements for this work, I just noticed that validity into St Pancras using RRB from Peterborough to Bedford has been set up. It’s in a post made a week ago by Kieron in the usual Routeing Guide discussion thread:
“700858 (Map) Due to engineering works affecting journeys to London Kings Cross, on 24 - 26 August 2019, this map easement will create journeys to London St Pancras via Peterborough, (on rail replacement coach services) to Bedford and onward via West Hampstead to London.
The buses for this don't seem to have been added to the timetable planners use yet, so the fastest alternative currently offered is by train via Ely.”
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/page-34#post-4046986
“700858 (Map) Due to engineering works affecting journeys to London Kings Cross, on 24 - 26 August 2019, this map easement will create journeys to London St Pancras via Peterborough, (on rail replacement coach services) to Bedford and onward via West Hampstead to London.
The buses for this don't seem to have been added to the timetable planners use yet, so the fastest alternative currently offered is by train via Ely.”
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/page-34#post-4046986
Class 170101
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All of the lines controlled by Kings Cross PSB are out of use for the weekend.
Stansted Airport will also be busy that weekend being a Bank Holiday weekend so not likely to be viable
Unlikely as 12 car operation being needed on Liverpool Street to Cambridge services will require Class 379 operation. Class 317s are not allowed to operate in 12 carriage formation in passenger service on West Anglia. (Manual dispatch possibly excepted)
700007
Established Member
You learn something new everyday. Does this mean that the allocations will *swap* for the weekend effectively seeing 317s on Stansted Express duties in 8-car formation and 379s on Cambridge duties in 12-car formations?
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