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London to Norwich - 90 min timings

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ashkeba

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dk1

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Does anyone know what the timetable pattern will be once the new fleet is in place? I imagine the hourly pattern might be a FLIRT stopping only at Ipswich, a FLIRT stopping also at Diss, Manningtree and Colchester, and an Aventra stopping also at Stowmarket, Chelmsford, possibly Shenfield, and Stratford.
No details have been released yet. Still at least 18 months away.
 

Carlgoss

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Anyone know what the track work is that has to be done at Haughley Junction? They made space for plant etc a long time a go and saw it mentioned in the forum recently.
 

dk1

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Anyone know what the track work is that has to be done at Haughley Junction? They made space for plant etc a long time a go and saw it mentioned in the forum recently.
Would it just be for the current relaying in the Stowmarket area? Nothing authorised yet upgrading the Junction or level crossing.
 

Dave1987

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Does anyone know what the timetable pattern will be once the new fleet is in place? I imagine the hourly pattern might be a FLIRT stopping only at Ipswich, a FLIRT stopping also at Diss, Manningtree and Colchester, and an Aventra stopping also at Stowmarket, Chelmsford, possibly Shenfield, and Stratford.

So where is the stop for Hat Pev, Witham, Kelvedon and Marks Tey coming from? Remember the Essex station service requirements. The Norwich in 90 has been literally squeezed in to the current timetable as it is.
 

Railperf

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How about we add up the combined amount of minutes every service has taken to date and divide this by the amount of services and then we can rename this thread Norwich in 9x minutes . I'm guessing 94 on average
 

30907

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So where is the stop for Hat Pev, Witham, Kelvedon and Marks Tey coming from? Remember the Essex station service requirements. The Norwich in 90 has been literally squeezed in to the current timetable as it is.
Surely they will be covered by the successor of the Ipswich terminator, whatever that is?
 

dk1

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Quite impressive loadings going through to Norwich on the 19:00dn this evening as it departed Ipswich. The old 19:00 now 19:02 looked incredibly comfortable compared to pre-Ni90 days on a Friday when it was renowned as one of the most crowded trains of the week.
 

dk1

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This mornings train is cancelled due to no available IC set. Lots of other short forms again too. The hapless passengers have insult to injury added as the following 09:03 is the 321s :s
 

306024

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Luxury. Finally got around to seeing how the 90s perform on these schedules. Day didn’t start too well on the 09.00 up as I was told 90012 was a three legged horse (one traction motor isolated), so wasn’t expecting to reach London in 90 minutes. But due in no small part to some excellent driving Liverpool St was reached in a net 89 mins 56 secs. A very creditable effort under the circumstances. The Liverpool St siggie was even brave enough to let the 09.30 Southend to Liverpool St keep on the main line as booked. A bridge bash snookered the return working but worth another go when time permits.
 

dk1

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Luxury. Finally got around to seeing how the 90s perform on these schedules. Day didn’t start too well on the 09.00 up as I was told 90012 was a three legged horse (one traction motor isolated), so wasn’t expecting to reach London in 90 minutes. But due in no small part to some excellent driving Liverpool St was reached in a net 89 mins 56 secs. A very creditable effort under the circumstances. The Liverpool St siggie was even brave enough to let the 09.30 Southend to Liverpool St keep on the main line as booked. A bridge bash snookered the return working but worth another go when time permits.
Get a 3-legged 90 on a load 9 & it's not so bad. It can usually keep time no problem but does appear sluggish. Only good thing is there's less chance of 'kicking' when DVT leading.
 

Grumbler

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Luxury. Finally got around to seeing how the 90s perform on these schedules. Day didn’t start too well on the 09.00 up as I was told 90012 was a three legged horse (one traction motor isolated), so wasn’t expecting to reach London in 90 minutes. But due in no small part to some excellent driving Liverpool St was reached in a net 89 mins 56 secs. A very creditable effort under the circumstances. The Liverpool St siggie was even brave enough to let the 09.30 Southend to Liverpool St keep on the main line as booked. A bridge bash snookered the return working but worth another go when time permits.
Why is one traction motor isolated? Is it faulty? If so why hasn't it been repaired?
 

hexagon789

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This mornings train is cancelled due to no available IC set. Lots of other short forms again too. The hapless passengers have insult to injury added as the following 09:03 is the 321s :s

Sounds like the Stadlers can't come soon enough.
 

hexagon789

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Too true but it's going to be a while yet before any IC examples enter traffic. Might see a couple of bimodes on the Ni90s later this Summer though.

Here's hoping. It's probably not as bad as it seems but GA do seem to have more short forms over the last two weeks than for a while.
 

ashkeba

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Last 4 weeks:
Norwich d 0900 avg a 1036 within 5min 74%
London d 1100 avg a 1242 within 5min 44%
Norwich d 1700 avg a 1840 within 5min 63%
London d 1900 avg a 2044 within 5min 21%

Doesn't look good :(
 

30907

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Last 4 weeks:
Norwich d 0900 avg a 1036 within 5min 74%
London d 1100 avg a 1242 within 5min 44%
Norwich d 1700 avg a 1840 within 5min 63%
London d 1900 avg a 2044 within 5min 21%

Doesn't look good :(
How does that compare with LST-NRW overall?
 

XC90

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They should change it to Norwich in 99 and steadily decrease it with better trains and timetables being tweaked.
 

Alfie1014

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Was always going to be a challenge, especially the 1900 down which requires much of the evening peak to run to time, (especially the preceding 1830), to give any chance of being on time. Matters not helped at the moment by some condition of track TSRs on the down 50mph from Shenfield towards Ingatestone and another just after Marks Tey. A couple on the up too, especially a long one at 60mph from Chelmsford to the A12 over bridge near Margaretting. The new trains should help being able to accelerate better.

Other services suffering from short forms (all sets at the moment?) can’t remember the last time I saw a 9 car in traffic and two sets being covered by for 321s much of last week, the second diagram just a 4 car one day which on the 1750 ex Liv St was cosy!
 

Alfie1014

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Not a good start to the week 0900 up failed at Ipswich and therefore 1100 back cancelled.
 

306024

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Have travelled on the 09.00 Norwich to Liverpool St twice, and arrived on time twice, both thanks to some spirited driving. Not much chance now with the traditional TSRs over the Essex clay formation it seems.

The overall punctuality of these services will be no surprise to those that regularly use the GEML, but is what happens when political considerations over-ride what is consistently achievable.
 

Alfie1014

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Last 4 weeks:
Norwich d 0900 avg a 1036 within 5min 74%
London d 1100 avg a 1242 within 5min 44%
Norwich d 1700 avg a 1840 within 5min 63%
London d 1900 avg a 2044 within 5min 21%

Had some time spare this afternoon so I thought it might be useful to revisit how Nin90 is going performance wise. Using the same data source as 'ashkeba' used the figures for the last 12 weeks are as follows;

Norwich d 09:00 avg a 10:38 with in 5min 64%
London d 11:00 avg a 12:43.5 within 5 min 43%
Norwich d 17:00 avg a 18:39.5 within 5 min 51%
London d 19:00 avg a 20:42 within 5 min 29%

Looking at the last 4 weeks (which of course are within leaf fall season and seems to have been disrupted by many other factors too) the figures are;

Norwich d 09:00 avg a 10:40 with in 5min 50%
London d 11:00 avg a 12:47 within 5 min 40%
Norwich d 17:00 avg a 18:42 within 5 min 35%
London d 19:00 avg a 20:42 within 5 min 25%

What surprised my most was the Right Time figures, according to the data the 19:00 down has not achieved a RT or early arrival in Norwich once in the last 12 weeks. OK some arrivals are only a few minutes late but not once in 12 weeks! Whereas the 17:00 Up has achieved it only 8% of the time and not once in the last 4 weeks. With an average delay in arrival of around 10 minutes this must have a knock on to the ability to turn round the trains and start the 19:00 back RT.

The morning trains do slightly better at 25% for the 09:00 up and 9% for the 11:00 down, though again over the last 4 weeks these have both dropped to just 5%.

Oh and in answer to an earlier question about how this compares to other trains on the route trains either side of the the 19:00 down achieve RT scores in the mid-to-high 50% with scores off peak in the 70-80% range.
 

Bald Rick

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Had some time spare this afternoon so I thought it might be useful to revisit how Nin90 is going performance wise. Using the same data source as 'ashkeba' used the figures for the last 12 weeks are as follows;

Norwich d 09:00 avg a 10:38 with in 5min 64%
London d 11:00 avg a 12:43.5 within 5 min 43%
Norwich d 17:00 avg a 18:39.5 within 5 min 51%
London d 19:00 avg a 20:42 within 5 min 29%

Looking at the last 4 weeks (which of course are within leaf fall season and seems to have been disrupted by many other factors too) the figures are;

Norwich d 09:00 avg a 10:40 with in 5min 50%
London d 11:00 avg a 12:47 within 5 min 40%
Norwich d 17:00 avg a 18:42 within 5 min 35%
London d 19:00 avg a 20:42 within 5 min 25%

What surprised my most was the Right Time figures, according to the data the 19:00 down has not achieved a RT or early arrival in Norwich once in the last 12 weeks. OK some arrivals are only a few minutes late but not once in 12 weeks! Whereas the 17:00 Up has achieved it only 8% of the time and not once in the last 4 weeks. With an average delay in arrival of around 10 minutes this must have a knock on to the ability to turn round the trains and start the 19:00 back RT.

The morning trains do slightly better at 25% for the 09:00 up and 9% for the 11:00 down, though again over the last 4 weeks these have both dropped to just 5%.

Oh and in answer to an earlier question about how this compares to other trains on the route trains either side of the the 19:00 down achieve RT scores in the mid-to-high 50% with scores off peak in the 70-80% range.

Great analysis, thank you. Some people feel rather vindicated.
 

ashkeba

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Great analysis, thank you. Some people feel rather vindicated.
It is interesting to read the first few pages again now. Would it have been better to wait for enough Flirts in service instead of trying to do it with 90s?
 

Bald Rick

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It is interesting to read the first few pages again now. Would it have been better to wait for enough Flirts in service instead of trying to do it with 90s?

It would have been better not to do it at all. Personal opinion, obviously.
 

Panupreset

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In recent weeks up roads will have had to contend with a lengthy 60mph ESR between Chelmsford and the A12 over bridge, and another 60 all be it a short one after Brentwood and the 50 between Goodmayes and Seven Kings that has been there for a year now. And a 20 sprung up at Maryland east cross overs this week. No chance of being on time with that lot. And nobody else has a chance either.

On the down a lengthy 50mph ESR between Shenfield and Ingatestone loop was finally lifted this week and the aforementioned 60 after Chelmsford too.
 
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