Costa seems to be pretty much the lightest form of franchise going. As far as I can see you can pretty much just sell the coffee, stick a big sign over the machine, and hope that whatever brand approval you get from that leaks over the rest of the stuff in your carefully unbranded shop
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Food & Drink on the railway
- Thread starter Saperstein
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
I think all of that is true. The main issue for on-train coffee is that most of what they are trying to sell is trolley-based instant coffee, or tea made with water which might well not be warm enough to actually brew. I'd be willing to chance a quid or so on that, and happy to provide my own cup. I'm not going to spend upwards of 2 quid and add another cup and a couple of milk thingies to the waste mountain though.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The filter cups TPE and Ryanair use are very good, but they do create a fair bit of plastic waste.
Really, what they should do is what the Germans do and pre-brew some good quality filter coffee and put that in the flask, with a separate flask for tea water. Filter is still popular despite not being "fancy" - indeed Costa have just added it to their range, so they clearly think it worth it. (The advantage to them is probably of making the queue move faster, I guess).
In Germany i think supermarkets are often in stations so they can open 7 days a week.You're right, there's almost always a little supermarket in even medium sized German, Dutch, Swiss, Austrian stations, at supermarket prices. Excellent for stocking up on the Paulaners.
German airports always have an Edeka supermarket or similar as well, €1 bottles of Augustinerbrau
Statto
Established Member
The only time i buy 500ml bottles now, is when they're included in a meal deal, with sandwich & snack thrown in, otherwise it's bigger bottles, which are better value.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They are indeed. Technically they are only available to those who are travelling (by law), but nobody checks.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I was going to mention that.
They sell (I refused!) the most expensive Toblerone bars in the universe.
The cheapest railway coffee (latte) I have found in western Europe was €1.10 at Lisboa Santa Apolonia (served at a seat with nice quiet surroundings too).
Quite reasonable on board CP trains too, especially with a pastel de nata to go with it!
Last edited:
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
GVA is expensive but it's no more expensive than anywhere else in Switzerland.
Butts
Veteran Member
Why are Newspapers the same price everywhere ?
Local Shop, Supermarket, Railway Station, Airport, Motorway Services , Port.
Is it because they are one of the few purchases today to actually display a price on the cover ?
Surely all the arguments about higher rent, location and wage costs are equally applicable.
Local Shop, Supermarket, Railway Station, Airport, Motorway Services , Port.
Is it because they are one of the few purchases today to actually display a price on the cover ?
Surely all the arguments about higher rent, location and wage costs are equally applicable.
The wholesale agreement for print media sets maximum selling prices, and at 20-25% the margin isn't high enough for anybody to offer a meaningful discount.
WesternLancer
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 7,147
TOCs always maintain that food provided on board (buffet or trolley) never makes them a profit. Not sure how they calculate that as of course there are various other aspects (eg if buffet space, could it be given over to seats that they can fill instead etc) - but of course there are staff costs, sales levels, stock control, waste etc etc. And thus providing food on board is part of the 'offer' and it may not actually make money. In that scenario - if true - then they will be keen to charge maximum price to try and reduce the loss of the facility. I suspect main cost is wages, as of course they would not pay rent to provide a trolley themselves on a train. This will be a different calculation for trolley only products as no cooking / food prep area is required (ovens, counters etc)
On stations: in the 1980s I worked for travellers fare on a station. That was part of BR so if they paid a rent it was a notional rent for accounting purposes (as opposed to WHSmith on the station who would have paid a commercial rent for their premises to BR).
The TF Unit managers office had a table showing percentage profit for each item sold on the menu. I assumed this was calculated at HQ. It was notable that the maximum profit margin was broadly speaking on the cheapest items (eg cups of tea) - production cost being a low percentage of the sales price. I bet bottled water fits this pricing model - don't think much of that was sold in the 1980s! It was not a travelers fare sales line in our unit IIRC. The lowest profit margin was on the most expensive items (eg a hot cooked meal product).
This of course gives rise to the 'selling up' that all will be familiar with - ie when you buy a product you are offered by the person serving something else, which if done skillfully will be a high percentage profit product, eg customer buys a cake and are asked if they would like a cup of tea to go with it? ('do you want fries with that' will not be asked because they think fries goes esp well with what you ordered, but because they make more money on fries).
On stations: in the 1980s I worked for travellers fare on a station. That was part of BR so if they paid a rent it was a notional rent for accounting purposes (as opposed to WHSmith on the station who would have paid a commercial rent for their premises to BR).
The TF Unit managers office had a table showing percentage profit for each item sold on the menu. I assumed this was calculated at HQ. It was notable that the maximum profit margin was broadly speaking on the cheapest items (eg cups of tea) - production cost being a low percentage of the sales price. I bet bottled water fits this pricing model - don't think much of that was sold in the 1980s! It was not a travelers fare sales line in our unit IIRC. The lowest profit margin was on the most expensive items (eg a hot cooked meal product).
This of course gives rise to the 'selling up' that all will be familiar with - ie when you buy a product you are offered by the person serving something else, which if done skillfully will be a high percentage profit product, eg customer buys a cake and are asked if they would like a cup of tea to go with it? ('do you want fries with that' will not be asked because they think fries goes esp well with what you ordered, but because they make more money on fries).
WesternLancer
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 7,147
IIRC until circa early 60s repeal of some retail legislation this applied to a vast range of products - in that the manufacturers basically controlled the price of their product to ensure that whoever sold it the price was the same. So if you wanted Kellogg's cornflakes, say, they would be the same price in every shop, but a different brand of corn flakes might be cheaper, but only cheaper in all the shops.
If you did not want to sell at the agreed price then as a shop keeper they wouldn't supply you the product as i understand it.
Google tells me this was:
the abolition of Resale Price Maintenance (agreements between manufacturers and their distributors that products would be sold at certain prices)
Newspaper publishers 'buy back' unsold papers too - so take the risk away from the shop, so I suspect that also helps them control the price - ie shop has no incentive to sell the papers cheap at the end of the day before they become past their use by date!
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
It works both ways. Motorway service stations have to pay more to their staff to attract people. My ex used to work at Southwaite services and got paid two quid an hour more than the equivalent city centre shop, and that was 15 years ago.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I am not so much bothered by the price but the general deceasing choice and quality these days.
Who remembers Gingham's at Paddington? Or the Guv'nor's at Glasgow Central? We need a few places like those back on the stations.
Who remembers Gingham's at Paddington? Or the Guv'nor's at Glasgow Central? We need a few places like those back on the stations.
matacaster
On Moderation
- Joined
- 19 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 1,602
I am not impressed with the range, prices or availability on UK trains.
In the 1970's?? there was an automated self-service sandwich and ready meals shop (with microwaves) in Leeds on the Headrow near what used to be Lewis's.
Surely it should not be beyond the wit of man to have some refrigerated automated cabinets and two or three self-operated microwaves on board suitable trains rather than having expensive food on board, a very small trolley or worst of all, nothing. The cabinets would be filled up at strategically located stations, perhaps by M&S, Smiths etc. Passengers would buy food using credit or debit cards (preferably contactless) and food requiring heating placed in microwave. This would not require additional on train staff, so prices ought to be realistic.
Opinions / siggested improvements?
In the 1970's?? there was an automated self-service sandwich and ready meals shop (with microwaves) in Leeds on the Headrow near what used to be Lewis's.
Surely it should not be beyond the wit of man to have some refrigerated automated cabinets and two or three self-operated microwaves on board suitable trains rather than having expensive food on board, a very small trolley or worst of all, nothing. The cabinets would be filled up at strategically located stations, perhaps by M&S, Smiths etc. Passengers would buy food using credit or debit cards (preferably contactless) and food requiring heating placed in microwave. This would not require additional on train staff, so prices ought to be realistic.
Opinions / siggested improvements?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There is food that microwaves well - VTWC are selling some of it in their "shops" now. You're talking pots of chilli, curry, bolognese etc. Or for breakfast "bean stew" type dishes. Not gristleburgers or bacon butties.
Some Sainsbury's like Paddington have hot curry and pastas now which are a good option (around £4).
EssexGonzo
Member
- Joined
- 9 May 2012
- Messages
- 636
It never ceases to amaze me how properly concerned people are about on-board food and drinks - either in 1st or standard. OK, on a 4-hour journey it may be an issue but not many of us do those, do we?
On-train catering will always be a compromise.
For all of my recent "long-ish" distance journeys from London to Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Exeter, Sheffield and a few more besides - I've taken my own water and bought something at a decent station shop (Pret etc) beforehand. It doesn't take much thinking to know that the chances of on-board catering being delicious is low.
And by the way, the same goes for motorway service stations. High prices, poor quality. Unnecessary if you think ahead.
On-train catering will always be a compromise.
For all of my recent "long-ish" distance journeys from London to Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Exeter, Sheffield and a few more besides - I've taken my own water and bought something at a decent station shop (Pret etc) beforehand. It doesn't take much thinking to know that the chances of on-board catering being delicious is low.
And by the way, the same goes for motorway service stations. High prices, poor quality. Unnecessary if you think ahead.
And air travel. I always go to Pret airside before getting on the plane. Two meals if necessary. Far better than anything on board.
Speak for yourself. Probably 70% of the journeys I do are more than 4 hours
EssexGonzo
Member
- Joined
- 9 May 2012
- Messages
- 636
Indeed. Plenty of people fawn about the food in business class. It's still rubbish compared to actual, proper food.
I've had a rethink. I'd still buy food in advance if my journey was 6 hours. Life is too short to pay too much money for rubbish food. I do the same on an overnight ferry to avoid the toxic sludge served on the boat.
And 1st isn't worth the spend for the food. It is for the space, but not the food.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Especially with Easyjet - unless you are truly desperate. I often take my own home made sandwiches .....
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Euston does as well, had those many times.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Thing is there's barely an airport in the world (well, the odd one like the abandoned-feeling Barcelona old terminal) where there's not a decent selection to buy before you board. Whereas if you board a train at Ulverston on a Sunday there's nowt - nor a trolley. The most glad I've never been of a trolley tea was boarding at Altnabreac at about 6am after a night wild camping in winter! (Sadly that train no longer stops). And closer to home other than hot drinks and choccy bars there's nowt near Bletchley either.
They’re all the same now Guv. Indeed I’d say Squeezy are better than the most of the rest; Mrs BR reports on a recent experience long haul with “the world’s favourite airline” that the food was approximate to gruel.
To be fair, if Ulverston was in any way like Barcelona, then I might be tempted to visit. And only then might I complain about the lack of Estrella and Patatas Bravas.
Most of the food I've had on business class flights was pretty good. I've definitely had worse in restaurants, and either way it's a civilised way to spend an hour or two on an otherwise boring flight. On trains I often do buy before I board but having the option of getting a pretty good hot sandwich halfway there is definitely handy, and again quite a civilised and pleasant way to spend 20 minutes or so.
I could make a packed lunch and a flask of warm squash, but then I could probably manage to survive until I got there. Sometimes I just want the experience of being stuck in a metal tube for hours at a time to be mildly less awful.
I've only travelled on the said Airline twice and would have been mightily dissappointed not to be plied with booze all the way. If that's not the case nowadays, then it's definitely declined.
- Status