At least 3 158 or 150s instead of 175s on Manchester to South Wales today. I saw what should have formed the 1131 Manchester-Carmarthen (saw it on its way up to Manchester) and it was a 158 in TFW colours. According to someone complaining on twitter the 1231 was a 3 carriage sprinter (assume 153/150 if it was 3 carriages) and I know the 1331 (which goes to Tenby) was definitely a 150.
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ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages
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I also noted a 150 at Liverpool Lime Street yesterday afternoon, unfortunately, I didn't log the number.
I did note 158822 in the new TFW livery at Man Picc around 20.30, think it was platform 10.
PHILIPE
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The 150 at Lime St would have been working the booked Halton Curve service from Chester
323 Class
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Thanks. Not my neck of the woods but was taking full advantage of a Lancashire day ranger.
PHILIPE
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The Halton Curve service has only just started this Timetable. Hope you had a good day out with your Ranger
Cardiff123
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Well TfW's fleet is knackered and has been for a long time. And it's the 'newest' trains in TfW's fleet (the 175s) that seem to need the most attention at the moment.
Oscar46016
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I noticed one train heading west out of Cardiff yesterday afternoon with a 2 Car 150 and 2 x 153s!
tomwills98
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That was 2L61, the 16:18 service to Maesteg. The two 153's were working a Cheltenham service which was cancelled, why it couldn't go on to Newport I don't know. It's normally a lone 150 and is a bit squished until Pontyclun, absolute bliss it was.
anamyd
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Of course the 175s need the most attention. Along with the 180s, they're cheaply specified cost cut jobbies that Alstom have retrospectively said they'd refuse to build to such a spec again, yet, because of the "long term-ness" of the rail system they've still been expected to last 30+ years, so having been built around the new millennium they're not even two thirds of the way through their supposed life yet...
Cardiff123
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Tomorrow marks exactly 7 months until the entire TfW fleet needs to be PRM modified.
How's that going then?
Anyone want to take bets on when TfW admit the deadline cannot be met? October? November? Or December?
How's that going then?
Anyone want to take bets on when TfW admit the deadline cannot be met? October? November? Or December?
anamyd
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I'll do some calculations in a bit, as the rate of progress seems to have somewhat at least improved.
Cardiff123
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All 150s and 153s should be fitted with Wheel Slip Protection by this September/October as well, otherwise there could be another repeat of last autumn, and it won't be possible to blame Arriva this time
anamyd
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has any WSP fitment actually started yet...?
krus_aragon
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I believe that the answer is a "yes", but as the modifications are underneath the solebar they're not particularly obvious to travellers (until the leaves fall).
anamyd
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Interesting! I wonder if there's any visible way of telling at all, and if anyone could provide us with information on which units have been fitted so far...?
hexagon789
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Surprised it's taken them so long to have them WSP-equipped.
childwallblues
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A pair of 175s was noted in Liverpool Lime Street this afternoon on the Chester service
anamyd
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they were indeed, in the Halton Curve Upgrade is On thread.
I think just over half of 158's are completed, about 8 or 9 150's and none of the 153's (first one is currently in for refurb now I believe). 158's and 153's should be ok, 150's might be tight for completion by December.
From what I hear (rumour) 769's should be on by Sept, 170's and 230's on line by October.
According to Wiki, the second hand trains due - 9x 769's (4 cars), 12x 170's (4x 2 car, 8x 3 car) and 5x 230's. Are all of these expected to be delivered and in service by the end of 2019?
The 230's will free up 4x 150's (Wrexham-Bidston - 2 units, Blaenau - 1 unit, Crewe-Chester - 1 unit and one spare 230 unit).
The 9 769's effectively equivalent of 18 pacers
The 12 170's meaning the total equivalent of 34 units, replacing 30 pacers (Not accounting for spare 769 & 170's being parked up). Any delays to the delivery of any of these though could put TfW in an awkward position as they won't have Pacers to fall back on.
It's not quite that simple because the 769s are only going to work on the Rhymney line. Many trains are booked for a single unit so in some cases a 769 will only free up a single 150.
Cardiff123
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Some people think the 769s won't work the Rhymney line because of clearance issues at Queen St and will work Ebbw Vale instead, which will be even more of a waste of the 769s.
The Prisoner
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Are short formed HSTs for Cardiff - Holyhead definitely off? Reading between the lines Angel Trains seem to be talking to someone, but rightly won't say who. Who else could it be other than TfW? https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/speculation-increases-over-use-of-hsts
Dai Corner
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More likely to be one of the TOCs which already use HSTs, such as EMT (mentioned in the article) or CrossCountry?
PHILIPE
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That was dispelled along time ago
anamyd
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Welcome, love your name
I have a list on https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transport-for-wales-livery.172016/page-9 (post #268)
PRM-TSI compliant TfW units are, as of 9/6/19:
158-818/819/822/823/824/825/826/829/830/831/835/836/839/840/841 (15 of 24 modified)
150-217/242/253/254/257/284/285 (7 of 36 modified)
175-001 to 011, 175-101 to 116 - all 27 built to be RVAR compliant, accepted as PRM-TSI compliant
(No 153s - 0 of 13 modified)
So of TfW's 100 (total) units that are members of classes 150/153/158/175, 49 (49%) are compliant.
As for the 170s, 230s and 769s that should all be in service with TfW by the end of 2019:
170-270 to 273, 170-201 to 208 - all 12 built to be RVAR compliant, accepted as PRM-TSI compliant
230-(006) to (010) - all 5 are being fitted out to PRM-TSI compliance as part of rebuild
769-002/003/006/007/008, 769-426/4xx/4xx/4xx - all 9 modified (previous TOC or conversion...?)
So of the 26 units that will officially be joining the TfW fleet by 2020, all 26 are / will be compliant.
If we combine the 150s/153s/158s/175s (as of 9/6/19) with the 170s/230s/769s (on delivery), that's 75 out of 126 units (~59.5%) being PRM-TSI compliant. That means that there's 29 weeks to get 51 units (29 150s, 13 153s and 9 158s) modified.
That's a mostly consistent two units per week. By comparison, it's taken roughly 52 weeks to get just 22 units (15 158s and 7 150s) modified. Half as many 150s have been modified as 158s, but in half the time as they started 6 months later.
So if that rate of progress continues, by 2020 let's say we'll see the remaining 9 158s and another 9 150s modified, which would mean still only 93 of TfW's 126 units (~74%) being PRM-TSI compliant. I understand that the hired Mark 2 sets and possibly "temporary extra units" displaced from other TOCs would allow TfW's 150s to be modified quicker and their 153s to undergo the modifications.
As it is though, a 33-unit "gap" would need to be filled at the beginning of 2020 - I can imagine some desperate measure like all 9 of GA's PRM modified (think they are) 156s temporarily going to TfW (which would be dependent on 21 755s being in service by then, as it's their 12 170s that are going to TfW), and fines being paid for up to 24 (total) unmodified 150s/153s to remain in service until they're modified. 1/1/20 is certainly going to be "interesting"...
As for the introduction of 170s, 230s and 769s, I believe that all 12 170s go off-lease from GA on 1/10/19, the 230s were all in build at some stage in late March and will be delivered from later summer to the end of 2019, and 769-002 and 008 have been delivered to Cardiff Canton depot (last I heard was 002 had been moving around the depot under its own power, and 008 was still in the sidings). Now that the exhaust pipe and bogie issues on the 769s have been worked out, I reckon those units might start coming in quicker before long.
The plan with the Pacer replacement as I understand it, is that 9 of the 30 will be directly replaced by the 9 769s, and the introduction of the 12 170s and 5 230s on the wider network will facilitate an "internal" cascade of 17 150s to "Valley Lines" (pretend it's still a seperate TOC) which will mean that "their" allocation will go from 15 142s / 15 143s / 6 150s, to 23 150s / 9 769s. So 4 fewer units, but a horizontal carriage space increase on that network/sub-network of 500 metres from 1140m to 1640m.
Per unit, Pacers have 2 15m carriages, 150s have 2 20m carriages and 769s have 4 20m carriages. And the Pacers have to be doubled up to achieve still only 75% of the length of a single 769, so the 4 fewer units won't be an issue. 9 769s are of equivalent capacity to 18 150s, not 18 Pacers. 9 769s are of equivalent capacity to 24 Pacers, due to Pacer carriages being only 15m in length rather than 20m.
TfW CEO James Price made this mistake at the 9/1/19 Senedd econ/infra/skills committee meeting, claiming (in response to a tweet stating that an 0702 Bargoed service was crowded) that while that duty should be booked 4-car as soon as possible, it was not short-formed as per the timetable inherited from ATW, because it was booked 2-car and was running 2-car, and that the "different type of rolling stock" that was substituted (a Pacer covering for a 150) had "similar capacity" but was "more difficult to board".
In fact this was nonsense - the simple fact of the matter is that that duty of that service was short-formed, because the Pacer was 30m in length and was covering for a 150 that would've been 40m in length. So, the rolling stock being used on that run was in fact only capable of providing 75% of the booked capacity, not "100% of it with so-called boarding difficulties, whatever they may have been".
What units are you implying that "12 170s" (8 3-car 170s and 4 2-car 170s) are of equivalent capacity to...? 170 carriages are of a different length again (23m, same as 153/158 carriages), and the 12 170s that are transferring from GA to TfW are formed from a total of 32 23m carriages which is a total of 736m of horizontal carriage space. This is equivalent to inbetween 24 (720m) and 25 (750m) of TfW's Pacers, inbetween 18 (720m) and 19 (760m) of their 150s, or 16 (736m) of their 158s.
Again, welcome
PRM-TSI - Persons with Reduced Mobility - Technical Specifications for Interoperability
TfW - Transport for Wales
RVAR - Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations
TOCs - Train Operating Companies
GA - Greater Anglia
ATW - Arriva Trains Wales
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Cambrian359
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Rather worrying to hear such comments being made by the ceo of tfw.......
Dai Corner
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Price is the CEO of the Welsh Government owned company Transport for Wales, not of Tfw Rail Services, the privately owned company which actually operates the trains. In other words he's a civil servant not a railwayman.
Cambrian359
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Ah ok cheers
anamyd
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It just didn't make any sense, even though Pacers have that single "middle" door in one of the carriages "for" both, and a step up!
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