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Scotrail Turbostars moving to Southern

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physics34

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Bit of both of these. It is indeed impractical to get back to the depot and this is probably the best use of the stock, even if it's a bit fiddly.

Space at London Bridge is at a premium but as this train often clogs up other arteries around London and especially also sometimes the junction north of Oxted station, it doesn't always help too much! I can recall a couple of very severe delays which originally stemmed from that shuttle leaving Oxted late, and then if it terminates at East Croydon vice London Bridge (surprisingly common!) the same sort of thing happens there, depending somewhat on which platform is used and therefore what the interlocking is doing.



Some are better than others. I know a couple of staff really try quite hard, though, and it doesn't work, so it's partly lack of being bothered on the passengers' part!

1E10 is often a couple of mins late arriving into LBG due to congestion therefore often leaves late..but has a lot of time to make it up before oxted. Three Bridges still continue to be very skow at clearing signals to a point that you slow down to stop and then have to SG them and then it immediately pings off to green. This loses up to 2mins sometimes and therefore the domino affect. The priority of thameslinks is also odd sometimes as our train couldve been gone and out of way but we are stopped for up.to 5 mins to make way for them.

Also... there has to be a way of running the east grinsteads on time, they often hold us up!!!

It might seem i always have a pop at Three Bridges but its just frustrating. I know they have a tough job.
 
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tsr

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I believe you are correct. I can't remember when it was introduced but it definitely pre-dates the new franchise and the LBG works. The issue was lack of capacity at abound 9am from Oxted to LBG as the train from Uckfield was only 2 car full and standing at Oxted. Sending what was at the time an 8 car back from LBG to Oxted to relieve that and avoid it clogging up lines to get in to Selhurst was in theory a good idea.

Whether it's needed with longer trains on the Uckfield line, the perceived drop in use on the line etc is a different question.

The 2+2 formation train which the shuttle relieves is still very busy from Oxted, ludicrously so if short-formed. 1L99, the Up 10 car shuttle, barely has more than 5 people per coach, even towards the front of the train. From East Croydon to London Bridge it is loaded just right - everyone seated but few, if any, standing.

In the meantime it appears that the 10 unit trains from Uckfield are all back in the timetable although I don't know how this can be confirmed, but his morning due to unit faults they ran as 8s.

Just as the availability of 2 car units finally seemed to be getting a bit better, I believe 171201 failed on depot the other day. It might be an engine fault but I can't confirm that.

1E10 is often a couple of mins late arriving into LBG due to congestion therefore often leaves late..but has a lot of time to make it up before oxted.

Ample so long as the East Grinstead service doesn't get in the way! I've still known it to be late on arrival quite a few times (indeed, this morning is a case in point!). For which the conductor must, of course, issue apologies to a lot of fresh air.

Three Bridges still continue to be very skow at clearing signals to a point that you slow down to stop and then have to SG them and then it immediately pings off to green. This loses up to 2mins sometimes and therefore the domino affect. The priority of thameslinks is also odd sometimes as our train couldve been gone and out of way but we are stopped for up.to 5 mins to make way for them.

TL services - and for some reason the Caterham line services - always seem to get in the way of the 1L81 Down shuttle around Windmill Bridge. Then it catches up with the East Grinstead service around Upper Warlingham. Alas!

Also... there has to be a way of running the east grinsteads on time, they often hold us up!!!

As above, quite so. Some of the driver resourcing at that time of the day seems to be a bit tight. Not sure if that has anything to do with it in this specific case, though.

It might seem i always have a pop at Three Bridges but its just frustrating. I know they have a tough job.

It always strikes me that they have the short straw and often there's actually no way for them to get everything right all in one go, if the trains have become slightly misaligned with their timings for whatever reason.
 

Chrisgr31

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1E10 is often a couple of mins late arriving into LBG due to congestion therefore often leaves late..but has a lot of time to make it up before oxted. Three Bridges still continue to be very skow at clearing signals to a point that you slow down to stop and then have to SG them and then it immediately pings off to green. This loses up to 2mins sometimes and therefore the domino affect. The priority of thameslinks is also odd sometimes as our train couldve been gone and out of way but we are stopped for up.to 5 mins to make way for them.

Also... there has to be a way of running the east grinsteads on time, they often hold us up!!!

It might seem i always have a pop at Three Bridges but its just frustrating. I know they have a tough job.

1E10 often sits just off the mainline at South Croydon for a few minutes, guessing its congestion.

The 18.06 LBG to UCK often gets stuck behind a late running EGR train. Today was the exception but it all went pear shaped at COH instead.
 

physics34

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1E10 often sits just off the mainline at South Croydon for a few minutes, guessing its congestion.

The 18.06 LBG to UCK often gets stuck behind a late running EGR train. Today was the exception but it all went pear shaped at COH instead.

yeh often leave EC 2 or 3 min late but have plenty of time to get to london bridge..so make up the time but then get held outside LBG instead.

Just bizarre the EGR can never run on time. They often leave VIC late... it seems trains are allowed into VIC (frequently a GATEX) before the 2Lxx leaves. Then the train gets held at selhurst for a sutton or something going to london bridge etc...

then its late to east croydon, the following uckfield gets a few mins delay behind it and then this uckfield service then delays the up service from Uckfield at Ashurst. The late up train then delays the up East Grinstead to Vic at Hurst Green!!!!!!! Just run this damn EGR train on time from vic looooooool
 

Chrisgr31

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Well I have no idea what Southern have done. I am not sure that at any time they have managed t run all the trains at the full intended length. The 7.30 up train from Uckfield has been 6 carriages not 10 for months.

For most if not all this week the 16.08 from LBG has been advertised as 4 not 6 carriages. Thats odd as a few months ago it was 10 carraiages.

Anyone know what is happening?
 

anamyd

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Can anyone tell me what's happening with 170-416 to 170-420 that are supposedly transferring from ScotRail to Southern and being converted to 171s...?
 

JonathanH

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Can anyone tell me what's happening with 170-416 to 170-420 that are supposedly transferring from ScotRail to Southern and being converted to 171s...?

That was cancelled ages ago - they are staying in Scotland.
 

physics34

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So im guessing southern still lease them but sub lease them to scotrail as mentioned above. They are still needed as cover down here really... one of the peak time 10 car uckfield services is now permanently 8 car.and 3 cars would be good on the marshlink.
 

JonathanH

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Having entered the new Timetable structure/ shake-up of May2018 they're not needed.

The fact that they are not needed does beg the question as to what Southern might have done with 15 extra carriages - was 3-car on the Marsh ever in the plans or did they think they could run a more frequent service through from the Uckfield line than is achieved at present?

The 2018 timetable consultation made it clear that there weren't any diesel trains available for longer services on the Marsh (even if Southern are leasing 170416-170420).
 
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170416/417/419/420 have been carrying plain blue, fully debranded scotrail livery for well over a year now, almost 2 yrs. Are there any plans to put them back into Saltire livery anytime soon?
 

D6975

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170416-20 are/were due to move to Northern when sufficient EMUs are delivered.
 

tsr

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Quite a few people at GTR wanted 3 coach Turbostars on the Marshlink. It is a bit of a mystery why this never actually did happen. But I've heard no word of any plans for that to be reconsidered, so far.
 

Fincra5

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The fact that they are not needed does beg the question as to what Southern might have done with 15 extra carriages - was 3-car on the Marsh ever in the plans or did they think they could run a more frequent service through from the Uckfield line than is achieved at present?

The 2018 timetable consultation made it clear that there weren't any diesel trains available for longer services on the Marsh (even if Southern are leasing 170416-170420).

Never been a plan for 3 Cars on the Marshlink. Back when they ran to Brighton, they were needed. The 2 Cars that run from EBN-AFK don't seem that loaded.. but then the frequencey of services between Eastbourne (EBN) and Hastings (HGS), where the largest passenger numbers are, have increased to 4 trains per hour. (1 Brighton-Ore, 1 Brighton-Hastings, 1 Vic-Ore and 1 EBN- AFK).
 

43096

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170416-20 are/were due to move to Northern when sufficient EMUs are delivered.
Do you have a source for that, as the only numbers quoted for Northern 170s are for 16 sets, which are the 16 Porterbrook sets that have now all arrived. There is a requirement for equivalent to Class 170 vehicles later in the franchise but AFAIAA there has been no announcement on how that need is to be fulfilled.
 

03_179

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I was on a Eastbrourne to Ashford on 4th Jan and it was packed and standing after St Leonards .. a few got off at Hastings but many stayed on to Ashford.
 

Chrisgr31

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What do you mean 'for the moment'?

The magazine correctly states they are planned to move in August - they are sub-leased from Govia Thameslink (Southern)
Brian

Does it say where they are moving to? My understanding is Southern no longer want them due to the cost of of conversion. Southern were meant to be running 10 coach trains on all Uckfield peak services and aren't however not sure they are needed.
 

clagmonster

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Could these five 170s end up at the Abellio East Midlands Railway? It is rumoured that the new air conditioned regional DMU fleet will be 170s from the West Midlands and unconverted South Central Division 171s. Could these five simply be transferred directly to the East Midlands, bypassing Selhurst completely?
 

LowLevel

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There are certainly rumours that they are bound for the East Midlands now (and may be the first 17x to arrive) but Abellio are keeping their cards close to their chest.
 

clagmonster

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It would certainly make sense to have a small number arrive first for crew and fitter training. Five units would allow one at each of Lincoln, Nottingham, Norwich, Eastcroft and Etches Park.

You are quite right about Abellio keeping schtum about things for now. Presumably nothing signed off ready to announce as yet.
 

LowLevel

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It would certainly make sense to have a small number arrive first for crew and fitter training. Five units would allow one at each of Lincoln, Nottingham, Norwich, Eastcroft and Etches Park.

You are quite right about Abellio keeping schtum about things for now. Presumably nothing signed off ready to announce as yet.

The rumour, and it is only such, is that 4/5 x 170s and 9 x Anglia 156s arrive before too long. 170s displace 158s from quieter Liverpool diagrams to displace 153s to allow withdrawal by the end of the year.
 
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