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Crew training for electrified lines

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Saperstein

Saperstein

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Hi,

I understand that drivers (and guards?) of diesel trains have to have the appropriate certificate if the train works electrified lines.

So Cross Country crew for example, although an all diesel fleet, need certificate for overhead lines?

The other day I was on a Transport of Wales 158, from the Wrexham direction. We were a few minutes late into Chester and held at a signal until A Merseyrail EMU departed, we then arrived on platform 7B.

Anyway, my question is do TFW crew have to be third rail certificate? AFAIK that platform is the only place they are likely to encounter the third rail, but I am happy to be corrected!

Thanks
 
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LowLevel

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Yes because you work around the railway infrastructure, it's not just the train that's your business. As an example EMT crews who work to Liverpool have PTS that covers 3rd rail as well as OHLE for working through Hunts Cross.
 
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Surreytraveller

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Yes, they still need to know which bits of railway infrastructure are dangerous to touch or go near in case they have to get off the train, and they need to know how to get the electricity switched off in an emergency .
 
Cherry_Picker

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It will be covered by your PTS certificate and route knowledge. There will be diesel drivers who go under the wires and over DC electrified 3rd/4th rail.
 
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sw1ller

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As above but a slight correction as to where we meet 3rd rail. We also see it at Bidston too. Don’t forget, there’s a walking route to/from the depot that we use with 3rd rail and when at the depot or middle yard, we’re walking amongst it, often in dark slippery conditions. It doesn’t matter if it’s an inch or 200 miles of infrastructure though, it’s part of the rule book training we undertake and were signed off competent with PTS too.
 
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DanDaDriver

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My PTS is “AC Only,” and I’m quite glad. 3rd rail seems a rather terrifying Edwardian concept.
 
ComUtoR

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DanDaDriver said:
My PTS is “AC Only,” and I’m quite glad. 3rd rail seems a rather terrifying Edwardian concept.
Click to expand...

I have both. DC is like a sleeping Crocodile. You could walk right over it but just don't touch it. AC is a different beast altogether. That is a Tiger hunting you down, that bugger is gonna eat you alive.
 
tsr

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I have had both AC and DC PTS for an equal length of time, and I have always found AC far scarier.

a) it can fall on your head (or indeed any other part of you)
b) the electricity jumps

The third rail stays where it is. If you respect it, it’ll leave you alone. (At one point I used to work directly over or beside it near enough every day.)
 
ComUtoR

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DanDaDriver said:
As happened to a Virgin WC driver a few years ago iirc.
Click to expand...

I was put in a similar situation a couple of years ago. Massive arc, kaboom, lights go out, signal goes back to red, all hell breaks loose. Signaler says..

I ended up inspecting my train, in a tunnel, looking for overhead/pantograph damage. I was very cautious and that incident was in the back of my mind at all times. Conversely I have pulled ballast bags from under my train in direct contact with the 3rd rail/shoe gear without a second thought.

I've always had both but mostly work DC. AC I find myself having to respect it at all times but with DC I am almost complacent around it. I think we all get comfortable with what we know and anything different or unusual we go into full safety mode. We are all a product of our training.
 
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DanDaDriver

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ComUtoR said:
I think we all get comfortable with what we know and anything different or unusual we go into full safety mode. We are all a product of our training.
Click to expand...

If I have 3rd rails to contend with, then I’ve been wrong-routed onto the underground (not technically impossible - one route indicator and a few signals) and I’ve got a whole host of things to worry about....
 
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sw1ller

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ComUtoR said:
I have both. DC is like a sleeping Crocodile. You could walk right over it but just don't touch it. AC is a different beast altogether. That is a Tiger hunting you down, that bugger is gonna eat you alive.
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We have both too and I agree with everything you say. AC scares the #%$¥ outta me. At least you know where you stand with DC. Or maybe it’s that I work trackside with DC a hell of a lot more and have become accustomed to it? I don’t know. I’ve seen first hand the effect of touching DC and it’s not nice at all, but I’d still rather work with it.
 
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Tom Quinne

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When I was a guard with Silverlink/London Midland we were DC/AC trained, the former mainly due to lines B & C from Camden to Euston.
 
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driver_m

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I get that attitude towards being a bit ‘meh’ towards DC. I’m surprised to see how close people get to the DC infrastructure with the utmost confidence, such as track workers on the Watford DC lines, whereas because I’m primarily AC biased, I still treat the DC with a huge amount of suspicion. (I have to have it on my PTS for the parts of Euston and Watford Jn where we can interact with it.)

It was a VT driver who got zapped at Weaver. A loose auxiliary wire got him. By all accounts a very lucky escape too.
 
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Surreytraveller

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driver_m said:
I get that attitude towards being a bit ‘meh’ towards DC. I’m surprised to see how close people get to the DC infrastructure with the utmost confidence, such as track workers on the Watford DC lines, whereas because I’m primarily AC biased, I still treat the DC with a huge amount of suspicion. (I have to have it on my PTS for the parts of Euston and Watford Jn where we can interact with it.)

It was a VT driver who got zapped at Weaver. A loose auxiliary wire got him. By all accounts a very lucky escape too.
Click to expand...
Don't be scared of DC, just treat it with respect and you'll be fine.
Don't touch it with bare skin or anything conductive or wet
 
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driver_m

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Surreytraveller said:
Don't be scared of DC, just treat it with respect and you'll be fine.
Don't touch it with bare skin or anything conductive or wet
Click to expand...

Eh? I’m not scared of it (or AC for that matter). It is just one those things where the belt and braces approach suits me just fine as I’ve seen first hand the damage that AC can do.
 
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I remember being told of a depot induction that features an AC test facility as well as being a third rail depot, and that whilst a group were being inducted the shunters were jumping off and on to the juice rail (2 footed jumps so as to not get juiced up). Needless to say the trainer's manager instructed retraining... But as others have said, DC, if not touched won't hurt, where as 25kv AC will jump and kill you, and the distance it can jump will entirely depend on specific weather conditions at the time, where as DC just won't jump in any real way by comparison.
 
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