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Formula 1
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90sWereBetter
Member
Canadian GP's gonna be a talking point for months to come, courtesy of one of the worst stewarding decisions the sport has ever seen. Vettel was robbed, and the tax-evader Hamilton gets another spawny win. 
This is exactly why I watch more IndyCar than F1 nowadays.
This is exactly why I watch more IndyCar than F1 nowadays.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Vettel broke the rules. He was punished. There was a similar one at Suzuka last year that set the precedent.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Vettel's penalty was a joke.
Completely agree.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
It ruined the race.
Going up to the bridge that crosses the A42 by my house later to watch the rush hour charlie’s. I’m figuring it’ll be more exciting. Not watched an F1 race for a while.
Don’t think I’ll be bothering again anytime soon.
The last couple of years F1 has hit the lino when it comes to entertainment.
Bring back refuelling & two tyre makers.
And proper engines.
And drivers with character.
Most exciting thing about the Canadian GP?
The mention of the wall of champions.
Conjured up images of a time when we had proper cars & proper drivers.
The Canadian GP used to be a cracker on the F1 calendar.
How times change.
Don’t think I’ll be bothering again anytime soon.
The last couple of years F1 has hit the lino when it comes to entertainment.
Bring back refuelling & two tyre makers.
And proper engines.
And drivers with character.
Most exciting thing about the Canadian GP?
The mention of the wall of champions.
Conjured up images of a time when we had proper cars & proper drivers.
The Canadian GP used to be a cracker on the F1 calendar.
How times change.
Howardh
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 May 2011
- Messages
- 8,155
It's ruined the season. It's now a one-horse race for the title, fans, sponsors, TV will lose interest so F1 has shot itself in the foot yet again. Monaco; it was the team's fault, not verstappen so the team should have been punished, yesterday Vettel slid and held the car, and no damage was done to Hamilton. Hamilton's only complaint could have been he was denied a chance to overtake, when Vettel could have taken the pair of them out.
Think that's the end for me this season unless it's teeming it down in one of the races (so Silverstone, then).
DarloRich
Veteran Member
so rules are not important? My view is that Vettel knew exactly what he was doing ans was rightly called out for it.
I am no fan of Hamilton and would have preferred that Vettel won the race but to me he clearly broke the rules and was rightly punished. As i said the precedent was set at Suzuka last year. Plus the stewards in Canada were being quite harsh on rules breaches. Was Hulkenburg not given a penalty for impeding someone in qualifying?
these two posts are like poetry!
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LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Didn't the stewards also say they'd be fairer this year? Monaco: Verstappen gets a 5 second penalty for unsafe release (something that people can be seriously injured or even killed in) as well as ruining Bottas' race. Giovinazzi gets a 10 second penalty for causing a collision.
Don’t get me wrong, I like F1.
I’ve been going to races since 1990.
It needs massive changes though.
It’s the pinnacle of motorsport & at the moment it’s a boring joke of a show.
It comes to something when you see more entertainment in a Formula Ford race at Oulton Park or Brands Hatch in a single race than you do in half an F1 season.
I’ve been going to races since 1990.
It needs massive changes though.
It’s the pinnacle of motorsport & at the moment it’s a boring joke of a show.
It comes to something when you see more entertainment in a Formula Ford race at Oulton Park or Brands Hatch in a single race than you do in half an F1 season.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
i think, for once, they actually applied the rules fairly! Vettel could very easily have put Hamilton into the wall. That said he did what any racer would and tried to hold position and use any means he could to hold position.
On the radio they were quite critical of the move. The TV seemed less so.
My view is that he didn't have control and the penalty was harsh, it's racing. People like Nigel Mansell, Mark Webber and Jenson Button seem to agree as well. I'm more inclined to agree with their view than that of Jolyon Palmer.
Always interesting when the views of drivers who retired years ago are given more weight than those of drivers who were driving very recently. How up to speed are the likes of Mansell with the current regulations?
The data that the stewards have is more than just the TV footage that we have, so would have to believe that there is more to it than just appears at first glance from the TV footage.
OK then. I'll take the view over both Mark Webber and Jenson Button than that of Jolyon Palmer. Unless the stewards offer this data, then I still have the opinion that it was harsh.
He possibly didn't have control (only he really knows), but that was entirely his own fault regardless.
If you accidentally block a driver's qualifying run, you still get a grid place penalty, I don't see why it should be different in the race.
In many sports you can expect some sort of penalty for endangering an opponent, even when it's accidental.
If you accidentally block a driver's qualifying run, you still get a grid place penalty, I don't see why it should be different in the race.
In many sports you can expect some sort of penalty for endangering an opponent, even when it's accidental.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vettel-penalty-canada-deserved-rosberg/4461724/
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reason-vettel-punished-canada/4461461/
So the most recent ex F1 world champion believes the penalty justified.
Further analysis of the incident from the stewards has been published which would appear to show they believe he had regained control before blocking Hamilton and hence the penalty.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reason-vettel-punished-canada/4461461/
So the most recent ex F1 world champion believes the penalty justified.
Further analysis of the incident from the stewards has been published which would appear to show they believe he had regained control before blocking Hamilton and hence the penalty.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I wouldn't trust an opinion from Rosberg.
Geezertronic
Established Member
Another mistake from Vettel has cost him. If he didn't keep his foot in then he could have regained the track without impeding Hamilton - he's a professional driver so he knew what he was doing. Hamilton would have gone round him if there was room to do so but Vettel made it impossible. The precedent for the rule being applied is there as Crashtappen knows only too well...
JohnMcL7
Member
- Joined
- 18 Apr 2018
- Messages
- 863
This seems to be a point that's being frequently forgotten even by the commentators who were saying the penalty is harsh because Vettel had driven a perfect race from start to finish which isn't true as he made a significant mistake. Furthermore I see the claim that neither lost or gained as a result but clearly Hamilton lost out because he was close enough to easily pass Vettel, the only reason he couldn't was because Vettel blocked him. I agree he knew fine what he was doing and it worked well as he forced Hamilton to slam on the brakes and prevent him getting past. He also seems to have a very short memory having requested official intervention on far more minor incidents that this one.
malc-c
Member
- Joined
- 1 Dec 2017
- Messages
- 990
I'm no expert, and can only base my view on the TV footage, but to me it does seem that Vettel made no attempt to turn the wheels as soon as he rejoined the track, but kept them straight to regain the racing line, which, at the time Hamilton was already on that line. IMO he could have made some effort not to squeeze Hamilton close to the wall. What I do find wrong, is the length of time of the penalty. In modern GP races, and on some circuits 5 seconds can cover the top four or five places. Vettel was lucky he was 6 seconds ahead of Lecclerc otherwise he may have come 3rd !
I agree with some of the comments regarding how the "standardisation" of one tyre supplier, the choice of a few engines etc have taken away the excitement of GP.
I agree with some of the comments regarding how the "standardisation" of one tyre supplier, the choice of a few engines etc have taken away the excitement of GP.
Strat-tastic
Established Member
Having just watched the replays, you can clearly see Vettel apply right-hand steering towards Hamilton after he rejoined the track and had regained control.
Fair penalty.
Fair penalty.
I think that was the whole point. If Vettel had not made the error in the first place that ended up with him being on the grass then the whole incident would never have happened, so it was Vettel's own fault.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
He was turning into the slide to correct it.
So Hamilton binning it in second practice isn’t a mistake? He was so so lucky that it was a Friday gearbox. I believe Vettel’s penalty was extremely harsh. The championship is over now. I don’t believe there is anything Vettel could have done. Hamilton fans maybe salivating over a cruise to the Championship for him now but I reckon most proper fans are probably fed up with it. He is that far ahead even if Vettel is winning a few races he can easily afford a few second or third place finishes. The Sky Sports pundits like Jenson Button all said that Hamilton didn’t go for the overtake in the last few laps because he knew Vettel had the penalty. Another championship down another Mercedes dominance. 
Well then you disagree with TWO qualified racing drivers including Jenson Button who both say he had a snap of oversteer when rejoining the track.
Not so sure that was luck. Apparently LeClerc was not aware of the penalty as Ferrari "forgot" to tell him - maybe he would have pushed harder if he knew?
JohnMcL7
Member
- Joined
- 18 Apr 2018
- Messages
- 863
I think that's harsh on Palmer who explains his opinion extremely well:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803
In particular he points out that the move was against the rules and that when a similar move was performed against Vettel and Verstappen given the same punishment, neither Vettel, Ferrari or anyone else complained.
JohnMcL7
Member
- Joined
- 18 Apr 2018
- Messages
- 863
No-one disagrees he had a snap of oversteer when he joined the track, it's after that where the problem is as Vettel steers to the right once he has control of the car. This is apparently what the stewards say as well watching slow motion footage and multiple cameras including one that wasn't shown to the public and that's why Vettel was given the penalty.