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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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swt_passenger

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GW43125 said:
There was the more than minor issue of wheelchairs not/only just going through the doors. No idea if they've dealt with it.
Click to expand...
There was a DfT spreadsheet knocking around that said nothing would change on the 442, because the agreed “reference wheelchair” fits.

I thought nothing could change without a completely new door mechanism though. Whatever the situation there’s been no mention of any significant door changes in this thread. (Apart from fixing whatever the obstruction detection fault was.)
 
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Not mine

Think most of the seats remain airline

I remember the Gatwick Express interior looking very dated looking with old style lighting so guess it's been improved

The scrolling pis was similar to the voyagers .. red type
 

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Wychwood93

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swt_passenger said:
There was a DfT spreadsheet knocking around that said nothing would change on the 442, because the agreed “reference wheelchair” fits.

I thought nothing could change without a completely new door mechanism though. Whatever the situation there’s been no mention of any significant door changes in this thread. (Apart from fixing whatever the obstruction detection fault was.)
Click to expand...
I have seen a wheelchair be too large (broad) to even fit on a 444 at Southampton (last year I think) - it went up the ramp, but not through the door.
 
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pompeyfan

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The inside has had the panels scrubbed and cleaned up to luggage rack level, the lighting has also been changed to a more clinical but vibrant LED type. I’ve walked between an un-refurbished and a refurb unit and the difference is impressive. They look much less dated. They also thankfully retain their luggage racks which is very welcome!

No modification has be done to the door mechanism, although the wheelchair ramps need an overhaul as there are issues with some platforms.
 
Kite159

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Seems to be a no show at Waterloo tonight, I assume the ECS is meant to be the "
5Q85 1810 Clapham Yard Sidings to London Waterloo" listed on RTT which currently hasn't tracked

Screens at Waterloo have it as delayed
 
superalbs

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I have used the units today, and unfortunately they are quite bad.

Many panels were loose, particularly around the windows and ceiling (so most of it really).

The seats aren't very comfortable, they look like very soft seats, but they're not. I suppose they're not awful, but not good.

I also noted that the gangways were soaked, and just seemed to let water in like nobody's business. The outside also seemed to be quite rusty in some select areas, although that could just be dirt (doubt it). This matched both inside and out having a very dated feel (aren't the tables as-built?).

Overall, I think they were rushed into service, even despite all of the delays. They're not a very good train at all anymore, and could have done with something more transformative. The views of most seemed to be that "they were good in 1988".

Considering the idea was to make an identical feel of train to the 444, they've done terribly.

Not impressed.
 
Kite159

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Agreed with the seats, I was getting a bit shifty after the Hook area, tables in the middle coach (the half which first class at the driving end) felt a bit low, and one of the seats looked a bit drunk (at an angle) (and has an excellent view of plastic)

IMG_20190610_190327471.jpg
 
Western Sunset

Western Sunset

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Ah, no wonder I didn't see it at a (very wet) Poole then....
At least 73965 TNT 73964 passed through with the 1115 Derby RTC - Eastleigh via Weymouth as compensation.
 
urpert

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superalbs said:
I have used the units today, and unfortunately they are quite bad.

Many panels were loose, particularly around the windows and ceiling (so most of it really).

The seats aren't very comfortable, they look like very soft seats, but they're not. I suppose they're not awful, but not good.

I also noted that the gangways were soaked, and just seemed to let water in like nobody's business. The outside also seemed to be quite rusty in some select areas, although that could just be dirt (doubt it). This matched both inside and out having a very dated feel (aren't the tables as-built?).

Overall, I think they were rushed into service, even despite all of the delays. They're not a very good train at all anymore, and could have done with something more transformative. The views of most seemed to be that "they were good in 1988".

Considering the idea was to make an identical feel of train to the 444, they've done terribly.

Not impressed.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure that tables and luggage racks are as built, yes.
 
fgwrich

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superalbs said:
I have used the units today, and unfortunately they are quite bad.

Many panels were loose, particularly around the windows and ceiling (so most of it really).

The seats aren't very comfortable, they look like very soft seats, but they're not. I suppose they're not awful, but not good.

I also noted that the gangways were soaked, and just seemed to let water in like nobody's business. The outside also seemed to be quite rusty in some select areas, although that could just be dirt (doubt it). This matched both inside and out having a very dated feel (aren't the tables as-built?).

Overall, I think they were rushed into service, even despite all of the delays. They're not a very good train at all anymore, and could have done with something more transformative. The views of most seemed to be that "they were good in 1988".

Considering the idea was to make an identical feel of train to the 444, they've done terribly.

Not impressed.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but on that last line I completely agree. From a preview I had last week, it just smacked of being rushed - another disappointment from what has become one of the most disappointing new franchises so far. At least the grey livery matches the tone of the franchise.

Considering certain people within First Group were involved in the fantastic FGW Mk3 refurbishment 10 years ago, and what ScotRail has done with theirs since, keeping the interior of the 442s much the same continues SWRs theme of constant disappointment. Still, I suppose that's what you get from a franchise on a budget.

Have they cleaned up the walls close to the FC Compartment yet? On the unit I had a look at last week, it appeared that they'd just ripped the vinyl from the wall and given up - no attempt to clean it up!
 
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That seat is definitely on the wonk.

Mk3s are not known for rattles, so I hate to think what they've done to cause them. Clearly a cheap, shoddy job. And yes, the same FirstGroup as did the HST refurb (very good) and the Night Riviera one (definitely the best quality and most comprehensive Mk3 refurb even if you don't like the seats!)
 
cactustwirly

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Bletchleyite said:
That seat is definitely on the wonk.

Mk3s are not known for rattles, so I hate to think what they've done to cause them. Clearly a cheap, shoddy job. And yes, the same FirstGroup as did the HST refurb (very good) and the Night Riviera one (definitely the best quality and most comprehensive Mk3 refurb even if you don't like the seats!)
Click to expand...

I think you should be looking at Southern for that job, as all SWR have done is tart them up a bit and move the first class area
 
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The vestibule from memory is incredibly narrow due to the metal pole for the door mechanism intruding into the narrow space

The small toilets were very tight as well. Gatwick Express put wallpaper inside then of the London skyline

Many seats not aligning with the windows is nothing new as that's how Gatwick Express refurbished them

The tables were never replaced and had a very old fashioned looking finish

They also caught fire a lot with Gatwick Express but I forget why
 
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pompeyfan

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I’m led to believe that to replace the tables would require a further delay as you need to re-certify the crash worthiness, or that’s or it was explained to me anyway.

FirstGroup haven’t bathed themselves in glory on this one, but the blame has to rest with the DfT as well, they led the first down the garden path with the way the franchise was specified. They knew full well that all the manufactures (excluding Siemens) were at full capacity and that 442s were the only 23m 2+2 stock available that are 3rd rail capable. The units themselves only had a an initial timescale of Aug 17 - Dec 18 to get 18 units back into traffic and to tidy them up at the same time. At the same time First are reported to massively overbid for the franchise using the DfT projected figures, rather than stagecoach using the raw figures.

I wonder if the issues would have been as bad had stagecoach won the franchise....
 
43096

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fgwrich said:
I hate to say it, but on that last line I completely agree. From a preview I had last week, it just smacked of being rushed - another disappointment from what has become one of the most disappointing new franchises so far. At least the grey livery matches the tone of the franchise.

Considering certain people within First Group were involved in the fantastic FGW Mk3 refurbishment 10 years ago, and what ScotRail has done with theirs since, keeping the interior of the 442s much the same continues SWRs theme of constant disappointment. Still, I suppose that's what you get from a franchise on a budget.

Have they cleaned up the walls close to the FC Compartment yet? On the unit I had a look at last week, it appeared that they'd just ripped the vinyl from the wall and given up - no attempt to clean it up!
Click to expand...
Fantastic FGW refurbishment? You are joking. Poor table provision, retina-burning lighting, over tinted windows, the list goes on and on.

I’m not surprised SWR have made a mess of this: the franchise where everything they touch turns to turd.
 
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piresistable

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Better run up to WAT this morning:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W30377/2019/06/11/advanced

Would probably have been 2 minutes late into WAT had it not been for an operational incident (that's what NRE are saying) that seemed to stop trains going in and out.

A couple of other observations. They've fitted USB ports presumably for charging phones. The plug sockets on the refurbished 444s say for laptop chargers only so that's a bit of a difference between the two stocks. Also, the wifi seemed to be working well on 442420.
 
HamworthyGoods

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pompeyfan said:
I’m led to believe that to replace the tables would require a further delay as you need to re-certify the crash worthiness, or that’s or it was explained to me anyway.

FirstGroup haven’t bathed themselves in glory on this one, but the blame has to rest with the DfT as well, they led the first down the garden path with the way the franchise was specified. They knew full well that all the manufactures (excluding Siemens) were at full capacity and that 442s were the only 23m 2+2 stock available that are 3rd rail capable. The units themselves only had a an initial timescale of Aug 17 - Dec 18 to get 18 units back into traffic and to tidy them up at the same time. At the same time First are reported to massively overbid for the franchise using the DfT projected figures, rather than stagecoach using the raw figures.

I wonder if the issues would have been as bad had stagecoach won the franchise....
Click to expand...

Stagecoach bid a far more aggressive revenue line and was reliant on delivering an extra off-peak mainline service each hour towards Southampton, so probably would have similar difficulties with power and the other problems effecting the current franchise.
 
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