Mid-platform signals at Manchester Piccadilly 13 & 14

Bletchleyite said:

Thought more about my other idea earlier.

Given that passengers wait in a relatively short area, it probably would make some sense to put a fence along the "other" side between, say, the west end and the stairs along P14, and another one between the east end and the stairs along 13. This would shorten the usable length, but would mean the waiting area could be safely extended all the way to the platform edge. Perhaps instead of a fence a full height wind break could be installed.

Pendolinos only serve the platforms very occasionally, so perhaps SDO could be used for those.

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Clearance rules mean the fence would have to be about where the yellow line is, so this wouldn't gain as much extra space as might first appear.

Llama said:

Exactly, done that a hundred times before now. Once you're stopped though, if the mid platform signal stays on, the guard should release the doors and the station duties are done at the 'B' end of the platform.

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In my experience what usually happens is the platform staff come running up to the cab window and tell the driver to stop short and give the guard 2-2 to not release the doors, and then draw up when the signal clears.

Not my favourite working environment.

WideRanger said:

While it is clear that platform edge doors are not possible with variing types of train, I have seen one type of platform edge protection that is a series of ropes that form a fence on the edge of the platform, but which raise above the doors when there is a train in the platform. The advantage is that there is no need to line up to doors, because the whole thing raises. Can't remember precisely where I saw it - probably somewhere in Japan.

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That would never pass a risk assessment. Sooner or later someone would quite literally end up getting hanged.

What is it with the seating in the lounge - those lean to’s are no good and there seems to me to be more of them than ‘normal’ seats - unless you buy an overpriced tea bag with lukewarm or scalding water from Costa - then you can sit on their seats

The seats added more recently also get in the way of people passing through the concourse.

LowLevel said:

In my experience what usually happens is the platform staff come running up to the cab window and tell the driver to stop short and give the guard 2-2 to not release the doors, and then draw up when the signal clears.

Not my favourite working environment.

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To be honest I've signed Piccadilly for years and never had that not heard of that being done. I assume you mean on 13 coming from Oxford Rd? On 14 coming from Longsight you could be stopping the job doing that. It's also very much not an official method of work and potentially puts the driver in a bit of a position. It wouldn't be tolerated at other stations with mid platform signals. I personally would always draw up to the signal, that's the way the layout is designed and is the mechanism to get things changed to establish a proper method of working.

Llama said:

To be honest I've signed Piccadilly for years and never had that not heard of that being done. I assume you mean on 13 coming from Oxford Rd? On 14 coming from Longsight you could be stopping the job doing that. It's also very much not an official method of work and potentially puts the driver in a bit of a position. It wouldn't be tolerated at other stations with mid platform signals. I personally would always draw up to the signal, that's the way the layout is designed and is the mechanism to get things changed to establish a proper method of working.

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When I say stop short (poor choice of words) I mean stop at the mid platform signal and draw down to the A end once it clears for platform duties. We generally only release at the B end if specifically told to do so by the dispatcher in disruption when they're stacking trains. Generally it's a wait of less than 30 seconds if you come to a stand at all - more often than not now they check us outside instead.

With the new crappy timetable it's an every day occurrence for us on 14 as we are usually up the arse of the xx35 Newcastle (squeezing 2 long distance trains into 3 minutes is such a sensible idea, not).

The alternative particularly on the up is a couple of hundred people dragging suitcases along the narrow platform to get to the other end while the train in front attempts to depart.

Releasing doors at the B end has never been a routine move for us in the time I've worked through Picc (possibly not as long as yourself but certainly more than 5 years).

I think they just don't really know what to do with 13/14. But they aren't the only busy, narrow platforms around - Oxford Rd & Deansgate can be the same at times.

Llama said:

I think they just don't really know what to do with 13/14. But they aren't the only busy, narrow platforms around - Oxford Rd & Deansgate can be the same at times.

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The significance of Piccadilly 13/14 is it's an island platform with trains operating in opposite directions on either side. That's not the case at Deansgate and at Oxford Road 2/3 happens only as a contingency (late running or amended timetable). Piccadilly 13/14 is more like the Tube station at Angel used to be: that was rebuilt getting on for 3 decades ago and as a result of needing extra tunnelling cost a huge sum to fix, a 9 figure sum IIRC. But that's in London so was apparently easy to justify. I'm not a huge fan of the North vs South argument but sometimes the disparities are both obvious and illogical.

Shaw S Hunter said:

The significance of Piccadilly 13/14 is it's an island platform with trains operating in opposite directions on either side. That's not the case at Deansgate and at Oxford Road 2/3 happens only as a contingency (late running or amended timetable). Piccadilly 13/14 is more like the Tube station at Angel used to be: that was rebuilt getting on for 3 decades ago and as a result of needing extra tunnelling cost a huge sum to fix, a 9 figure sum IIRC. But that's in London so was apparently easy to justify. I'm not a huge fan of the North vs South argument but sometimes the disparities are both obvious and illogical.

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It's a bit different to Angel in that trains do not usually stop directly opposite each other, and when they do it's usually last minute so you don't generally get people waiting together for trains stopping on opposite sides.

scrapy said:

It's a bit different to Angel in that trains do not usually stop directly opposite each other, and when they do it's usually last minute so you don't generally get people waiting together for trains stopping on opposite sides.

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But given the number of people interchanging into/out of longer-distance trains who tend to have luggage the circulation problems are just as bad particularly as so many passengers have to use the overbridge. And the bridge itself creates something of an obstruction on the platform. The Angel solution also included additional escalator shafts to improve pedestrian flows. The platform 15/16 scheme would surely include a much wider bridge (like that at Leeds) to allow better management of pedestrian flows. The current set-up is an accident waiting to happen so while the red-line shouters are not popular (and their customer service skills could be better!) they are necessary.

Bletchleyite said:

Thought more about my other idea earlier.

Given that passengers wait in a relatively short area, it probably would make some sense to put a fence along the "other" side between, say, the west end and the stairs along P14, and another one between the east end and the stairs along 13. This would shorten the usable length, but would mean the waiting area could be safely extended all the way to the platform edge. Perhaps instead of a fence a full height wind break could be installed.

Pendolinos only serve the platforms very occasionally, so perhaps SDO could be used for those.

Click to expand...

I would say this would be a very good idea. However, given the 'full length' trains would be calling so rarely, and usually at quieter times, (normally due to scheduled engineering works on the WCML) , could some removable/retractable fencing be installed so that on the occasional Sunday when Engineering works require a scheduled diversion through the offensive area, the full platform length could be opened up.