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TfW’s New Service from December 2020

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Jorge Da Silva

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https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...pen-access-application-bristol-2019-06-11.pdf

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...en-access-application-coventry-2019-06-11.pdf


Bristol

Swansea to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Neath, Port Talbot Parkway, Bridgend, Cardiff Central, Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction, Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Temple Meads.

Hourly departing Swansea between 05:21 and 20:21 (Monday – Saturday) and between 09:21 and 20:21 (Sunday).
Hourly departing Bristol Temple Meads between 07:32 and 22:32 (Monday – Saturday) and between 11:32 and 22:32 (Sunday).

2 or 3 car classes 170 and 175.

Coventry:

Existing Holyhead/Pwllheli/Aberystwyth – Birmingham International services to extend to/from Coventry with no intermediate stops.

Hourly departing Birmingham International between 06:51 and 20:51 (Monday – Saturday) and at 09:43, 10:43, 11:42, 13:13, 14:08, 15:11, 16:08, 17:11, 18:08, 19:11, 20:08, 21:12, 22:17 and 23:12 (Sunday).
Hourly departing Coventry between 06:58 and 20:58 (Monday – Saturday) and at 09:40, 10:37, 11:56, 12:56, 13:56, 14:56, 15:56, 16:57, 17:57, 18:56, 19:57, 20:57, 22:00 and 22:57 (Sunday).
One extra journey from Crewe to Coventry at 05:37 (Monday – Saturday) and 08:19 (Sunday) calling at Stafford, Wolverhampton, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Birmingham New Street and Birmingham International.
One extra journey from Coventry to Crewe at 21:58 (Monday – Saturday) and 23:31 (Sunday) calling at Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Wolverhampton and Stafford.

2, 4 or 6-car Class 158.

TfW is planning new services from December 2020 between Swansea and Bristol. And extending existing Birmingham International terminators to Coventry. Any thoughts?
 
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Bletchleyite

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TfW is planning new services from December 2020 between Swansea and Bristol. And extending existing Birmingham International terminators to Coventry. Any thoughts?

Pointless and stupid ORCATS raid in the latter case? They haven't got enough stock ordered as it is. BHI is a very logical terminus for them.
 

43074

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Seeing as these are Open Access applications I would be very surprised if they pass either the abstraction tests or consultation with other TOCs; having said that, Bristol TM should have been a franchise commitment anyway, but DfT dithering meant it wasn't.
 

WelshBluebird

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Seeing as these are Open Access applications I would be very surprised if they pass either the abstraction tests or consultation with other TOCs; having said that, Bristol TM should have been a franchise commitment anyway, but DfT dithering meant it wasn't.

Don't really mind which ToC, but IMO Cardiff - Temple Meads deserves more than 2 trains per hour, especially during the peaks.
If GWR aren't willing or able to provide that, then I don't see why TfW shouldn't be allowed to.
 

Bletchleyite

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Don't really mind which ToC, but IMO Cardiff - Temple Meads deserves more than 2 trains per hour, especially during the peaks.
If GWR aren't willing or able to provide that, then I don't see why TfW shouldn't be allowed to.

Does it really? As long as there is enough capacity, 2tph is quite adequate. Don't let's get into the TPE nonsense of running short trains on ridiculous frequencies and causing the inevitable hit to punctuality.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Well I think it's a sensible idea extending the Birmingham International terminator to and from Coventry. Hopefully this will stop the XC Voyage services here being too packed!

Also an extra Bristol to Swansea service is ideal - thousands more seats would be provided here.
 

43074

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Does it really? As long as there is enough capacity, 2tph is quite adequate. Don't let's get into the TPE nonsense of running short trains on ridiculous frequencies and causing the inevitable hit to punctuality.

There isn't enough capacity... Plus 2tph taking 50 - 55 mins is arguably inadequate for two cities of that size and proximity to one another anyway.
 

craigybagel

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Pointless and stupid ORCATS raid in the latter case? They haven't got enough stock ordered as it is. BHI is a very logical terminus for them.

But it would mean that services coming from the Cambrian would return back to the Cambrian as well, instead of swapping with Holyhead services. Given only a limited fleet is getting fitted with ERTMS, as discussed on one of the other TfW threads, this could be very good news for the Cambrian, with its limited fleet no longer being sent to North Wales.
 

cle

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The Bristol service is good - why are people so negative. The only shame is that is should be electric! Maybe one day.

Coventry seems a little random as International is such a good place to layover. But Coventry does offer some more onward connections, I guess. Not critical ones though.
 

Bletchleyite

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The Bristol service is good - why are people so negative. The only shame is that is should be electric! Maybe one day.

Coventry seems a little random as International is such a good place to layover. But Coventry does offer some more onward connections, I guess. Not critical ones though.

I can think of two stations (and only two) that are served from Coventry but not New St - the two stops on the Cov-Nun branch line. I doubt these provide a market.

The reason I'm being negative is that TfW do not have enough stock on order to ensure no overcrowding on their existing services without pursuing stupid conquests like these.
 

The Planner

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Would like to see how they think they can find somewhere to sit at Coventry for the best part of an hour.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Swansea - Bristol to me seems a very good idea - paralleling the much discussed M4 corridor , especially with growing commuting from "affordable" Wales to Severnside etc. It has been an idea kicking around for a very long time and would have made a splendid EMU working if electrification had not gone so wrong - but future bi-mode maybe ?

International - Coventry , more of a performance risk I reckon. The corridor certainly has its moments on incidents , and cross Coventry DMU workings make it more complex.
 

Starmill

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It's really not. Just needs the capacity increasing by running proper length trains.
2tph taking 55 minutes has been reported to have been losing passengers since the bridge tolls were abolished. The quality of the Turbo rolling stock is also very poor for an express route between two large cities. It should surprise nobody that this is not an attractive long-term service.

Anyway, the way I see it, this isn't really about adding a third hourly train between Cardiff and Bristol as much as it is about through trains between Swansea and Bristol Temple Meads. There are only a handful, which seems to be quite the omission to me. In the same vein, there are also almost no trains from Cardiff to Exeter, and all of the ones that there are are very slow.
 
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krus_aragon

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For context, these applications exceed the service level the DfT said they'd accept from the Wales & Borders franchise, back in the 2018 agency agreement for devolving the franchise to Cardiff. Putting the applications in as Open-Access ones is probably the only way TfW can try to get around the agreement without breaking it.

With regards to Bristol services, the DfT said no paths could be offered to the Welsh Government "until all outstanding upgrade work [was] completed in Bristol area including Bristol East Jn", which was forecast for 2024. This OAO application for December 2020 is aiming for something a lot sooner.

Looking at the Birmingham services, extending beyond Birmingham International out to Coventry would take roughly half an hour for the round trip. There isn't time for that in the current stopover period at BHI, so an additional diagram would be needed. At the moment a train heading to Birmingham from the Cambrian works to Holyhead on the return journey. Adding Coventry into the scheme means each train will effectively be "stepping back" one diagram, so a train from the Cambrian will return to the Cambrian on its next service. That'll let TfW concentrate more of their ERTMS-equipped units (158s and later the subfleet of Civitys) on the Cambrian, instead of the North Wales Coast. The Holyhead-Birmingham-Coventry) services could be operated by 175s instead if operationally convenient.
 
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transmanche

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I can think of two stations (and only two) that are served from Coventry but not New St - the two stops on the Cov-Nun branch line. I doubt these provide a market.
Let's be honest, nobody wants to change at New Street unled they really have to!

My wild guess is that TfW believes there to be an untapped market for, say, Shrewsbury/Telford to Coventry traffic. Although the ERTMS cost-saving argument sounds more plausible.
 

Starmill

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I can think of two stations (and only two) that are served from Coventry but not New St - the two stops on the Cov-Nun branch line. I doubt these provide a market.
Come on Neil - there are three stations there. Coventry Arena, Bedworth and Bermuda Park. There is also a fourth, Kenilworth, served by trains on the same route which also has no through services to Birmingham.

I agree that the market for travel to those stations, plus for direct travel to Coventry itself, is very small.
 

craigybagel

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I suspect it could give big savings in keeping more of the ERTMS fleet on the Cambrian, as I suggested above.

Longer turnarounds could also save money since there should be less need for turning back late running services early. That could be useful given the very strict performance targets in the franchise.
 

Parallel

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Interesting about the Swansea to Bristol service. Would be good if it could stop at Patchway too. Interestingly, it looks to be a fast/semi fast service. There’s already two of them Swansea to Cardiff an hour - I would say boosting the Swanline services is also important but all stops Swansea to Bristol won’t be attractive to longer distance passengers.
 

transmanche

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Longer turnarounds could also save money since there should be less need for turning back late running services early. That could be useful given the very strict performance targets in the franchise.
Although I think that was the reason for extending the service from Birmingham New Street to Birmingham International in the first place.
 

craigybagel

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Although I think that was the reason for extending the service from Birmingham New Street to Birmingham International in the first place.

It was indeed. Previously it was a very tight turnaround at New Street. They could only extend the turnaround by multiples of 60 minutes owing to the paths available, and they couldn't leave a unit blocking a platform at New Street for over an hour, so they extended it out to International instead. It's been a popular move anyway, given how many people along the route use Birmingham Airport, and also it means people changing for London can do so at International rather then New Street, which is much easier
 

craigybagel

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So effectively wasting a unit saves money? Sneaky.

Indeed. Welcome to the weird and wacky world of the railway! Still, at least in this case it opens up some more journey opportunities for passengers, and hopefully improves reliability as well. If it actually happens of course.
 
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