And people in deepest Brexiteer Kent said EU law never helped them...
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SouthEastern franchise direct award through to 1 April 2020 (& franchise competition terminated)
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And people in deepest Brexiteer Kent said EU law never helped them...
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That's right, although the numerous extensions are themselves on the very edge of legality.
Metal_gee_man
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Thinking about it 2tph into each platform which is all I'm proposing will be very achievable because the intended turn around time would be between 15/20 minutes before it returns on the same route, or even shorter if the Ramsgate service then turned into a Dover or Faversham service meaning turnarounds could be shortened even further if required to free up platform space (I don't see the need for it but its an option)
But hey its a pipe dream to see a total of 4tph (including the 1 Charing Cross and 1 Victoria services) in each direct via Canterbury West because of the disruption it'd cause with the level crossings on that line
There shouldn't be a problem doing that from Dover upping the service to 3tph (including one Charing Cross service) via Folkestone
And Faversham already handles 2tph to St Pancras (one circular, one starting there) so there are no problems with paths there
A TVM430 module is available as a drop in module (as TPWS is) for ETCS too. so arguably easier now than earlier as you would need to match the original batch. New trains are effectively built with ETCS at the core and other signalling systems added on (See Aventra delays)
Ultimately HS1 is going to be converted to ETCS as has already started happening in France.
Probably looking at 9x 6car units to sort out the HS1 service.
Yup, you are absolutely right
Yep, just got email confirming it.
Unless the franchise gets awarded, this almost guarantees the extension will run till April. This is not good for anybody. I hope that the agreement is more than just money and that there is something that starts the process to introduce new stock. I am not looking forward to another year of stagnation.
The extension confirmation is buried towards the end of this press release
https://newsroom.southeasternrailwa...-introduce-15-minute-delay-repay-compensation
https://newsroom.southeasternrailwa...-introduce-15-minute-delay-repay-compensation
urpert
Member
From the press release it sounds like Delay Repay 15 and some tweaks to the website are the only ‘improvements’ we can expect before next April.
3141
Established Member
The DfT has got itself into a deep hole here. Govia obviously won't invest much into a franchise that it may not be running after November, or after next April. If the DfT wanted to order new trains it would surely have to publish a notice inviting tenders, the winner might not be what the eventual winner of the franchise would have ordered, and the trains wouldn't arrive till late next year or more probably in 2021. Or if the DfT instead planned to bring in stock that's going to be displaced (such as 458s or 707s) they too might not be what the eventual franchise winner would choose, they are unlikely to be available in time (unless there's at least one more extension after next April), drivers and fitters would have to be trained (an expense that the present franchise holder wouldn't want to undertake if they might no longer be running the show), and anyway there aren't enough sidings to park them. On top of that, the two remaining bids for South Eastern are now several months old and would have to be renegotiated before an award could be made.
Yep, spot on. Nothing will happen regarding rolling stock. Probably for years...
Bromley boy
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According to some contacts of mine who work there, the news of this latest extension has been badly received internally. Morale at SE metro driver depots is apparently not good, and getting worse. Other TOCs in the area offer better work, or better pay/conditions or both in some cases! SE pay is now far behind where it should be, with no new deal likely for another year.
Those drivers who can are leaving in droves, either to SE mainline depots for better work, or to other TOCs, with many currently working their notice periods. One metro depot in particular recently suffered a recent mass defection of almost 1/3 of its drivers and is now well under establishment, with much of its work having to be cross covered by other depots.
Those not looking to leave are often trapped by poor safety records - in part because of variable instructor quality. DIs range from fantastic to some who are completely wrong for the role, and doing it for the wrong reasons. This is because few drivers are willing to instruct given the poor additional pay for a great deal more risk and hassle.
Of course these issues are by no means unique to SE but, from what I’ve been told, this succession of short franchise extensions comes at a very bad time.
Those drivers who can are leaving in droves, either to SE mainline depots for better work, or to other TOCs, with many currently working their notice periods. One metro depot in particular recently suffered a recent mass defection of almost 1/3 of its drivers and is now well under establishment, with much of its work having to be cross covered by other depots.
Those not looking to leave are often trapped by poor safety records - in part because of variable instructor quality. DIs range from fantastic to some who are completely wrong for the role, and doing it for the wrong reasons. This is because few drivers are willing to instruct given the poor additional pay for a great deal more risk and hassle.
Of course these issues are by no means unique to SE but, from what I’ve been told, this succession of short franchise extensions comes at a very bad time.
You've only got to look at how many drivers expressed an interest in working for GTR when the flyers appeared. It was like Black Friday!
Bromley boy
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You've only got to look at how many drivers expressed an interest in working for GTR when the flyers appeared. It was like Black Friday!
A twilight zone version of Black Friday, where the store actively turns away its most desperate shoppers
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A twilight zone version of Black Friday, where the store actively turns away its most desperate shoppers
And the weird universe where the most qualified ones (who are more qualified than their actual Drivers) DONT get the job. !!
Your contacts indeed do speak the truth. Every word here is true. A shake up is what we were hoping for but yet another 9 months now.
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fergusjbend
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South Eastern announce new rolling stock procurement:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/whitstable/news/steam-engine-makes-long-awaited-return-206712/
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/whitstable/news/steam-engine-makes-long-awaited-return-206712/
urpert
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Haha you had me for a minute there!
700007
Established Member
Don't tease us like that!
The extension will be called. There will be no new rolling stock. DfT are now paranoid about legal challenges, so everything has to go through the lawyers and 7 tiers of (mis)management, so the wheels are grinding exceedingly slowly.
BTW LSER drivers are not so badly paid, unless you compare them to GTR - unfortunately they live next door and drive some of the same trains.
BTW LSER drivers are not so badly paid, unless you compare them to GTR - unfortunately they live next door and drive some of the same trains.
They are also paid less than drivers at cross rail, LO, and Southern. The main issue is pay deal was due 2018 and could not be negotiated due to last year franchise (allegedly) and the same is happening this year. So are drivers going to remain at SE with no realistic prospect of a pay deal for a considerable period when their neighbors are paid more, I think the GTR difference will be close to £15k by October especially at Orpington as they do GTR work and get no enhancement
4-SUB 4732
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It may well do; but it may well also now be strongly reconsidering some elements of rolling stock policy according to other people such as to need a re-think for a few bidders. We may yet have to go to OLR again.
Out of interest what is OLR?
FlippyFF
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Operator of Last Resort.
ForTheLoveOf
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The Operator of Last Resort, a consortium appointed by the DfT to ensure continuity of service in the event of franchise terminations before a new competition can be held.
They are still working on SE bids and have been throughout.
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