route:oxford
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Bit of Rain X and you don't windscreen wipers on a car either.
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Artemis's project to convert DVT to use hydraulic energy storage
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Bit of Rain X and you don't windscreen wipers on a car either.
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It's a technical exercise, why bother with the expense of making it look good to enthusiasts when it's to show the industry that the tech works?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
To take that argument to its logical conclusion, why bother making anything look good at all?
I do love how certain members of the forum seem to scoff at the more frivolous aspects of enthusiasm, as if it gives them some form of "cool points"
Just live and let live. We've all signed up to a forum for discussing aspects of a mode of transport, so, glass houses and all that...
Charlie Smythe
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I don't understand this project at all. From what i can gather it is a DVT with a JCB engine in it which drives a hydraulic pump connected to one motorbogie. This engine kicks in when pulling away of whatever and provides more power? Is that right?
You don't understand the continuing need for research & development? Or something else?
I know you love your noisy 'beast' diesels but the rest of the world is trying to move on.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Serious question though, as I'd rather forgotten about this one - clearly this is an R&D project but what's the ultimate aim - conversion of existing multiple units with energy storage? Conversion of a fleet of DVTs when the rest of the Mk4s are scrapped? I see the value in all forms of traction power research but I'm curious about where this would go from here.
Charlie Smythe
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No i don't understand the project as in what they are trying to do. Is it a locomotive? An energy storage unit or both? And yes i do love my Diesels, any problem with that?
Like what you want, it's up to you. It's also fairly well explained in the thread what the intention is with this project.
Spartacus
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Google provides the simple answer, it's to store anergy lost during braking which can then be used to aid acceleration and/or reduce power usage while accelerating. http://www.artemisip.com/sectors/rail/
Charlie Smythe
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So do the engines directly drive the wheels via the hydraulic pump? Do then engines drive the wheels and then the stored energy can be used to aid acceleration?
It's the hydraulic equivalent of a diesel-battery hybrid. The diesel engine drives a hydraulic pump, which is linked via valves to a hydraulic accumulator (basically a gas/fluid pressure vessel) and then to a hydraulic motor which turns the wheels. When the vehicle is accelerating normally, power from the engine passes through the hydraulic transmission to the wheels. However, the hydraulic motors on the axles can be used as brakes, and pump fluid into the accumulator (like regenerative braking). This stored energy can then be used to aid acceleration.
If you watch the videos of the unit on test, they can store quite a lot of energy in the accumulators, and the unit is demonstrated pulling away silently without running the engine. I imagine that one target application would be future DMU trains that make frequent stops - the energy storage makes them more fuel-efficient and allows you to avoid idling the engine in stations.
If you watch the videos of the unit on test, they can store quite a lot of energy in the accumulators, and the unit is demonstrated pulling away silently without running the engine. I imagine that one target application would be future DMU trains that make frequent stops - the energy storage makes them more fuel-efficient and allows you to avoid idling the engine in stations.
43096
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Why do you feel the need to be so aggressive when replying? Not just this post, there have been others.
Charlie Smythe
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Last edited:
I'd agree with 43096 .your post does come across as aggressive. Maybe you didn't mean to be, but it does look it.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Thirded. It may well be accidentally, but posting a personal opinion, especially one as simplistic as something being 'good' or 'bad', and then when quizzed on it, asking 'is there a problem?' does come across as provocative.
More on topic - has there been any formal announcement regarding where the technology developed by Artemis is intended to be used? A quick search didn't come up with anything obvious.
sprinterguy
Established Member
Chiltern Railways. The original intent is stated in the opening post of this thread:
Although clearly the timeframe has slipped somewhat...
samuelmorris
Established Member
Ah I see, dunno how I managed to miss that - so the intent is presumably to increase the efficiency of their loco hauled sets. It makes me wonder why the diesel generator is needed though?
I think it's a one-off technology demonstrator more than a definite plan to convert more DVTs. It may well be that Chiltern are being paid by RSSB to release the DVT to the project, and were happy to be associated with an innovation scheme. As I said earlier, I think it's most likely to be deployed on future DMUs making frequent stops, and as Chiltern have a reasonable-sized DMU fleet that's not getting any younger they are presumably interested in technology that can make for more efficient DMUs in the future. Artemis have previously done a smaller installation (supplying hydraulic power to auxilliary systems rather than traction) on a Scotrail Turbostar.
coppercapped
Established Member
If it doesn't have an engine, then it would need a locomotive for it to be able to run. (Unless the storage is charged up before a wheel is turned).
I largely agree and the DVT is an easy platform to modify.
My suspicion is that it is aim at being able to turn the locomotive (68) engine off longer in Marylebone and Moors Street by running the compressors and other auxiliaries from the stored energy with generator there if there isn't enough, the bigger step would be in moving the train in the station areas?
as the dvt has only one bogie powered the maximum off off train weight converted [kinetic energy]to stored energy whilst braking is unlikely to be more than say 10% off the total as a guess.
i am sure its more to prove the viability rather than a useful "boost" to the whole train'
there will off course be secondary advantages in this setup not available in a whole train set up.
i am sure its more to prove the viability rather than a useful "boost" to the whole train'
there will off course be secondary advantages in this setup not available in a whole train set up.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Yes, it just seemed odd to go to the length of making a secondary cab and fitting an engine if neither would be applicable to the final intended product - would have been easier to borrow another loco I would have thought. There clearly is intent for this to be usable as a standalone source of motive power rather than just operate with an existing LHCS rake.
Some interesting noises coming from the test unit, is that dragging brakes or is it actually part of how it operates?
from another utube video it is the brake discs on one bogie needing to wear in if it was the too and fro quiet run
Charlie Smythe
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Are there any official sources stating what JCB engine is in this project?
gordonjahn
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Looking in this video:
I grabbed the following pic of the engine:
Scanning through the JCB OEM engines at https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/request-b...50&tab=0&jcb_content=cta-range-link-1-compact, it looks like this one: https://ai-engines.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Ecomax-4.4L-108kW-145hp-Stage-IV-T4-IPU.pdf
If it is, it's an Ecomax 4.4L 108kW (144hp) Stage IIIB T4i IPU.
Charlie Smythe
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Looking in this video:
I grabbed the following pic of the engine:
Scanning through the JCB OEM engines at https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/request-b...50&tab=0&jcb_content=cta-range-link-1-compact, it looks like this one: https://ai-engines.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Ecomax-4.4L-108kW-145hp-Stage-IV-T4-IPU.pdf
If it is, it's an Ecomax 4.4L 108kW (144hp) Stage IIIB T4i IPU.
Looking at the files and photos you posted I think I have to agree with you. The engine in the YouTube video is a splitting image of the specs sheet.
delticdave
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AFAIK, the Chiltern DVTs are already fitted with an auxiliary diesel gen-set to provide hotel power & compressed air at the terminal stations, rather than keeping the loco engine running.
pdq
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News item from https://www.hud.ac.uk/news/2019/june/decarbonisation-task-force-allen-huddersfield/
Rail and business experts at the University of Huddersfield are to share an award enabling them to make a powerful case for new technology that could play a key role in eliminating carbon emissions by freight trains in the UK.
In response to a Government call for the use of diesel-only trains to be eradicated by 2040, the Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB) set up a Decarbonisation Task Force and launched a competition, with a total prize pot of £2 million to be distributed among research teams exploring novel solutions to the problem.
One of the six winners was a project titled Digital Displacement for Non-Passenger Rail, developed by a consortium of Artemis Intelligent Power, the University of Huddersfield and Direct Rail Services, with support from Freightliner and Voith Turbo.
The project, with an overall grant of £120k, will examine the possibilities provided by digital displacement technology developed by Artemis as a more efficient alternative to conventional hydraulic pumps for providing traction and auxiliary power for freight locomotives, shunters and on-track plant. Use of this technology will help facilitate the development of environmentally-beneficial hybrid locomotives, says Professor Paul Allen, who is Assistant Director of the University of Huddersfield’s Institute of Railway Research.
He will work with Dr Messaoud Mehafdi, a Senior Lecturer in the University’s Business School. The two will hold talks with key industry figures and prepare a business case for adoption of the digital displacement technology by freight train operators.
Professor Allen explained that a conventional hydraulic pump that operates constantly is inefficient. “But with an electronically-controlled, mechatronic digital displacement pump, you can effectively switch idle cylinders on and off.”
The system has been trialled in Scotland in a passenger train and this demonstrated the benefits of hybrid drive technology for rail vehicles.
“But freight is very challenging to decarbonise because you need a lot of power. At the moment, only diesel engines and overhead electrification can provide those levels of power within the confines of our Victorian infrastructure,” said Professor Allen. “So if you don’t have overhead lines, it is difficult to fully decarbonise freight locos.”
However, the technology developed by Artemis holds out the prospect of developing new hybrid engines for freight locomotives.
“You could potentially replace a traction package with hydraulic motors, using accumulators to store hydraulic oil under pressure, harvesting this energy under braking, then using it to drive the resultant diesel or electric hybrid vehicle forward. It is an energy storage device using hydraulic engineering,” explained Professor Allen.
His collaboration with Dr Mehafdi is now underway and will be completed by the end of 2019.
In response to a Government call for the use of diesel-only trains to be eradicated by 2040, the Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB) set up a Decarbonisation Task Force and launched a competition, with a total prize pot of £2 million to be distributed among research teams exploring novel solutions to the problem.
One of the six winners was a project titled Digital Displacement for Non-Passenger Rail, developed by a consortium of Artemis Intelligent Power, the University of Huddersfield and Direct Rail Services, with support from Freightliner and Voith Turbo.
The project, with an overall grant of £120k, will examine the possibilities provided by digital displacement technology developed by Artemis as a more efficient alternative to conventional hydraulic pumps for providing traction and auxiliary power for freight locomotives, shunters and on-track plant. Use of this technology will help facilitate the development of environmentally-beneficial hybrid locomotives, says Professor Paul Allen, who is Assistant Director of the University of Huddersfield’s Institute of Railway Research.
He will work with Dr Messaoud Mehafdi, a Senior Lecturer in the University’s Business School. The two will hold talks with key industry figures and prepare a business case for adoption of the digital displacement technology by freight train operators.
Professor Allen explained that a conventional hydraulic pump that operates constantly is inefficient. “But with an electronically-controlled, mechatronic digital displacement pump, you can effectively switch idle cylinders on and off.”
The system has been trialled in Scotland in a passenger train and this demonstrated the benefits of hybrid drive technology for rail vehicles.
“But freight is very challenging to decarbonise because you need a lot of power. At the moment, only diesel engines and overhead electrification can provide those levels of power within the confines of our Victorian infrastructure,” said Professor Allen. “So if you don’t have overhead lines, it is difficult to fully decarbonise freight locos.”
However, the technology developed by Artemis holds out the prospect of developing new hybrid engines for freight locomotives.
“You could potentially replace a traction package with hydraulic motors, using accumulators to store hydraulic oil under pressure, harvesting this energy under braking, then using it to drive the resultant diesel or electric hybrid vehicle forward. It is an energy storage device using hydraulic engineering,” explained Professor Allen.
His collaboration with Dr Mehafdi is now underway and will be completed by the end of 2019.
d9009alycidon
Member
This project seems to have gone quiet for a while, has there been any developments?
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