Bletchleyite
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FWIW as I'm not a fan of interworking diagrams (see threads on the appalling mess that is now LNR), I am now inclined to support this now I know the reason
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TfW’s New Service from December 2020
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FWIW as I'm not a fan of interworking diagrams (see threads on the appalling mess that is now LNR), I am now inclined to support this now I know the reason
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craigybagel
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FWIW as I'm not a fan of interworking diagrams (see threads on the appalling mess that is now LNR), I am now inclined to support this now I know the reason
Of course that might not be the reason - and rest assured I was just as baffled as everyone else was when a colleague showed me the application earlier today - but it's certainly a plausible reason for it.
krus_aragon
Established Member
It saves money on fitting ERTMS to more of the Civity fleet than is otherwise needed. Running the existing diagrams, plus the full hourly service to Aberystwyth, would have left several trains short-formed.
To reference an old conversation on the KA Future Rolling Stock thread:
In that light, perhaps it's more a case of "our new, self-contained Cambrian timetable would leave each train sitting at Birmingham International for an hour, so let's see if we can send them somewhere more useful in that time instead"?
The Planner
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They will probably get sent round the corner as suggested like the Cov Leamington did originally.
anthony263
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Maybe some additional class 769s could be ordered by tfw . We if the 2 we have now finally get out and do some work
They might as well cover off the Kenilworth service and turn at Leamington Spa - a Kenilworth through from Birmingham!
AFAIK Coventry-Leamington is only single track with a passing loop at Kenilworth (or near), so there would not be enough capacity for that, as there is already 2tph passenger on the line plus the large number of freights going from Southampton to the WCML. It might be possible in some hours that less freights are working, but otherwise it would only be possible to run into the sidings
The Planner
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Still planned to be doubled from Kenilworth to Leamington, won't be CP6 though. Needs to be to enable both XCs going that way post HS2.
Think the suggestion is to replace the Nuneaton!
Class 170101
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I thought XC could already to this at weekends if the route via Sollihul was blocked by engineering works?
Or was this possible only prior to Kenilworth shuttle?
The Planner
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Only works on a Sunday, and that is because WMT don't run the xx.33 to Euston from New St.
sufian123
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Yes but on Sunday xx36 Coventry from new st which is WMT. for some other reasons must be going xc go via Coventry to lms on Sunday. as not all of them do it via Coventry xx33. As some booked via Solihull on Sunday as well.
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
What has happened to the applications they are no longer on the ORR website?
To be fair, how often is platform 4 at Cov occupied? I never see anything in there now. Suppose that service could take the strain for some of the VT services which get severe commuter overcrowding into Cov, but then thinned out onwards to London, however, it makes a section already vulnerable to knock on delays even more likely to suffer them. Andy Street the WM mayor should be topping his Tory chum Grayling for some 4 tracking money between Cov and New St if they want to add more trains on that stretch.
sufian123
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As passengers they prefer taking trains that are quick to their destination. New st-cov is full of commuters.
DaveHarries
Established Member
Speaking as someone who lives in Bristol I think 2tph Cardiff to Bristol TM is enough. Also I doubt there will be many available slots between Filton AbbeyWood and Bristol TM from December 2019 when there will be upto 10tph Filton AbbeyWood to Bristol TM (in both directions, if I am right: 2x London Pad, 2x Cardiff Ctrl, 2x CrossCountry on the Fast Line + 1x Bristol Parkway local stopper (2 at peak times). There would also be 1x Gloucester / Great Malvern) so I can't see how a Swansea to Bristol TM service would fit in.
Dave
Dave
tiptoptaff
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The Swansea-BTM stopping pattern is what is rumoured GWR will be running on TfW's behalf in the next few months. So it may be just be an application to take it back for themselves once the service is established.
Whether Cardiff-Bristol needs an extra tph, (and FWIW, I don't think it does) a direct Bristol-Swansea is something I think that would be popular.
Whether Cardiff-Bristol needs an extra tph, (and FWIW, I don't think it does) a direct Bristol-Swansea is something I think that would be popular.
tiptoptaff
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Not forgetting the Severn Beach and Avonmouths taking up relief line paths to Narroways Junction
It’s four track all the way now so that doesn’t sound excessive compared to other four track urban railways.
If they were to get decent stock on the route, I’d choose that over GWRs pretty awful Turbos.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
They seem to have forgotten the missing Marches-Bristol connection (avoiding Newport).
To me this would be more valuable that increasing Cardiff-Bristol which already exists.
If not hourly then at least a few times a day.
I know. And the TfW runs right in front of one of ours. I’ve followed it enough times into International. I personally can’t see it being allowed though as it will just aggravate the delays already happening regularly over there.
sufian123
Member
I agree. When I was at uni I avoided VT at all cost. Didn’t care it was fast. Rather take a slow train and get a seat.
The Planner
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That is generally due to knock on delays from your xx30 being late out of New St and then the WMT xx33 which stops Marston Green, your xx50 will occasionally catch the xx39 local up.
craigybagel
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Indeed, the amount of people who commute from Cwmbran/Pontypool/Abergavenny to Bristol despite the lack of a direct service is really quite something. As are the amount of phonecalls I've made to Newport station to ask for the xx:44 Portsmouth to get put on platform 3 not 4 to facilitate a cross platform interchange with my late running Manchester-West Wales service. Luckily they're a very helpful bunch there with a good relationship with the signal box.
Consider it justice for all the times your late running 9Sxx holds up our Manchester - South Wales services at Crewe
Being serious though, I took one look at the application and thought "not a hope Virgin will let that happen". The TfW is booked out of Coventry 4 minutes in front of the Virgin - yes it should almost always be on time given the long turnaround time at Coventry but still I can't see Virgin accepting that.
Indeed, the amount of people who commute from Cwmbran/Pontypool/Abergavenny to Bristol despite the lack of a direct service is really quite something. As are the amount of phonecalls I've made to Newport station to ask for the xx:44 Portsmouth to get put on platform 3 not 4 to facilitate a cross platform interchange with my late running Manchester-West Wales service. Luckily they're a very helpful bunch there with a good relationship with the signal box.
Consider it justice for all the times your late running 9Sxx holds up our Manchester - South Wales services at Crewe
Being serious though, I took one look at the application and thought "not a hope Virgin will let that happen". The TfW is booked out of Coventry 4 minutes in front of the Virgin - yes it should almost always be on time given the long turnaround time at Coventry but still I can't see Virgin accepting that.
Something like this is a chicken and egg situation. NR won’t allow train to run because it delays existing stuff, but not allowing it stifles the potential improvements to the line. (I.e station additions, extra services, additional tracks, OLE.) I’m on a 9S now going pass, and it’s Late. Thanks to LNR, so blame them haha!
Xx27 walsall or whatever it is usually causes that. Work quite a few xx30s and it’s always the same. That or something coming into 3 or 4 as we tend to leave from 6. If only New St could have 15 or 20mph speeds instead of 10 it would make a massive difference. (does much doubling up happen on the platforms now that a lot more things run as longer units?) Would be a bonus being able to get rid of the mid signals during the resignalling in a few years.
The Planner
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Resignalling is like for like in terms of signals, exit speeds go up to 15mph though.
I agree. 1tph TfW service Swansea to Bristol and 1tph GWR service Cardiff to Portsmouth (or Brighton) would be adequate, subject to having 4 or 5 coach formations. The current GWR Taunton - Cardiff service could terminate at Bristol, but 1tp2h could extend to Hereford via Maindee East Curve (avoiding Newport) on alternative hours to the 1tp2h Cardiff - Holyhead service.
Peak time, there probably is the demand for 3tph but wouldn't say it was a major priority, especially when 2tph South Wales - London run calling at Bristol Parkway. During the peak, I quite like the idea of trains running through offering longer direct journeys at busier times - There are options to run to Weymouth or Exeter and so on from Cardiff but very unlikely for this to happen.
DaveHarries
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I don't mind those Turbos. Rather those than a Class 150 anyday.
Indeed so. I use the Severn Beach Line. Someone posted the GWR bid sheets in another thread on this forum and some of the SBL trains are shown as being retimed by a few minutes, particularly the morning one I get in the morning - 0751 Severn Beach to Bristol TM which arrives Bristol TM at 0832 if it doesn't get held up after leaving Clifton Down.
I wasn't trying to be negative: I simply don't see how they would fit it into the schedules once the planned changes by GWR for December this year, which may well see many trains throughout the Bristol area being retimed, come in. Some retimings might also take place for CrossCountry although I am not sure about that.
Dave
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