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Halton Curve upgrade is on

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anamyd

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I had a 150 as expected and the TfW examples are a lot better inside than Northern's, with all 2+2 seats and even some tables.
GWR's 150/2s also have that layout with the "airline" and "facing & tables" 2+2 Chapman seating; TfW/ATW/Wales and Borders' and GWR/FGW/Wessex Trains' allocations were split from Wales & West in 2001 - I think the layout itself dates from a single programme carried out by National Express/Prism Rail in the late 90s that also included 142s, 143s, 153s and 158s (only the latter two classes of which got the facing seats and tables) the first three of those classes of which still have their NX Group seating layouts (with TfW, TfW & GWR and TfW respectively), but with the 158s it's a bit different as ATW off-leased some in late 2006 when they fully acquired the entire 175 build, and then had the ones they kept "as new" refurbished including Grammer seating in 2011-2012; however 815-817 live on with Northern still with their NX Group seating layout it would appear!
 
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Vinnym

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I visited a city centre Merseyrail station recently and asked for a return to Frodsham via Runcorn... it took rather a long time and a fair amount of discussion for me to be given the right ticket. And I had to factor in a walk to Lime Street station to catch the train, totally defeating the point of the faster journey.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the realm of the Merseyrail ticket office. Ask for anything outside the Merseyrail box and a lot of staff are lost.
 

frodshamfella

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I visited a city centre Merseyrail station recently and asked for a return to Frodsham via Runcorn... it took rather a long time and a fair amount of discussion for me to be given the right ticket. And I had to factor in a walk to Lime Street station to catch the train, totally defeating the point of the faster journey.

Welcome to the realm of the Merseyrail ticket office. Ask for anything outside the Merseyrail box and a lot of staff are lost.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, I think you might experience in many places. My aunt went to a central London station recently to book a ticket to quite a large town but outside the London area and was replied with " Where ?! " loudly with blank expression.

Hopefully Merseyrail will cotton on about this new route soon enough.
 

Bletchleyite

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Welcome to the realm of the Merseyrail ticket office. Ask for anything outside the Merseyrail box and a lot of staff are lost.

Quite. Merseyrail, the TOC who would have substantially improved (ticketing) service if they closed them all and put a ToD TVM at every station instead. Every time I hear this it makes me sad.
 

driver_m

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Quite. Merseyrail, the TOC who would have substantially improved (ticketing) service if they closed them all and put a ToD TVM at every station instead. Every time I hear this it makes me sad.

But not as sad as all the people that you’d put on the dole, and those of us who live round here who would have to put it with the vast increase in ASB. Bryn/Garswood being the historically perfect way to highlight staffed/unstaffed station.
 

Camden

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Welcome to the realm of the Merseyrail ticket office. Ask for anything outside the Merseyrail box and a lot of staff are lost.
I would disagree with that, I don't usually have any kind of issue with what they would ordinarily be expected to sell. Stations on the city line, fine. Stations in the wider area, all fine. Even for Frodsham, the default was to sell a £7 via Birkenhead - not the much more expensive "via any" which used to only mean via Warrington.

There are now three separate routings for this line - Birkenhead, Runcorn and Warrington. I can fully understand the last one not being interoperable as it's quite a way out, but the first two really ought to be. Making matters worse is that the £7 via Runcorn is only available starting from Lime Street, not from Liverpool Stations - hence the staff at James Street not being able to find it at first. Their own "via Runcorn" comes out at about £12!

They shouldn't have to go to such lengths to sell a basic (and hobbled) ticket from the city centre to a small town in the same city's wider region.

The poster up at Liverpool South Parkway would suggest that it's not only ticket sellers who are finding the lack of sensible interoperability a problem, but that some passengers may well have been financially caught out by a problem which shouldn't exist.

As an additional point to my original, to make matters worse later due to timing it would have been much more time effective for me to return to Liverpool via Birkenhead. But instead I had to wait for the TfW train, and remain on the train to Lime Street (when I would have at least chosen to change at Liverpool South Parkway).
 

frodshamfella

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I think rather than concentrating some early ticketing issues on this new service, which admittedly should have all been ironed out before the service commenced but nevertheless seem to be now, it might be better to celebrate how great it is to have a new railway link in the Northwest and its future potential. 8-)
 

Camden

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I think rather than concentrating some early ticketing issues on this new service, which admittedly should have all been ironed out before the service commenced but nevertheless seem to be now, it might be better to celebrate how great it is to have a new railway link in the Northwest and its future potential. 8-)

The ticketing issues haven't been sorted out though. I still can't buy a sensibly priced via Runcorn ticket from James Street. Someone from Frodsham still can't buy a sensibly priced ticket to, say, Aigburth. And if I do go on a needlessly time uncompetitive journey to Frodsham via Runcorn, I will still have to come back that way, or pay all over again to go via Birkenhead.

It troubles me that this might never get sorted out. On this front (fixing things which should be fixed) I would say that I don't think Merseyrail/travel have especially good form. You'd think that 15 years would be enough time for them to fix making sure Liverpool Stations tickets go through their exit barriers, but apparently not. It's been a while now since their stations were redecorated, but they still haven't gotten around to putting back a lot of the signage which was there (and there for a reason) beforehand. The Merseyrail departures board at Lime Street main line station hasn't worked in who knows how long.

The motto seems to be, if it's broke, don't worry about it.
 

Vinnym

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I think rather than concentrating some early ticketing issues on this new service, which admittedly should have all been ironed out before the service commenced but nevertheless seem to be now, it might be better to celebrate how great it is to have a new railway link in the Northwest and its future potential. 8-)

I agree with you Frodshamfella, my post was directed at the often poor service received from Merseyrail ticket offices in general. Hope the initial interest in the service continues and it goes from strength to strength.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Is there a reason on NRE if I input my home station to Liverpool it only shows Merseyrail connections from Chester and none of the TfW options. Should I need to put a via in? Couldn't it show all options?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Is there a reason on NRE if I input my home station to Liverpool it only shows Merseyrail connections from Chester and none of the TfW options. Should I need to put a via in? Couldn't it show all options?
It depends on where your "home station" is! The most likely reason is that the Merseyrail connections result in the only non-overtaken itineraries - i.e. that the TfW services are all overtaken. I haven't undertaken a detailed check but from a brief check it appears this is the case.

Quite apart from that, it's possible that the permitted route maps have not yet been updated to permit travel via Runcorn, depending on your origin station.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Fair enough. Origin station was Llandudno or Llandudno junction.

As these are the stations the trains will originate from eventually , I assumed they would connect well!!
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I would disagree with that, I don't usually have any kind of issue with what they would ordinarily be expected to sell. Stations on the city line, fine. Stations in the wider area, all fine. Even for Frodsham, the default was to sell a £7 via Birkenhead - not the much more expensive "via any" which used to only mean via Warrington.

There are now three separate routings for this line - Birkenhead, Runcorn and Warrington. I can fully understand the last one not being interoperable as it's quite a way out, but the first two really ought to be. Making matters worse is that the £7 via Runcorn is only available starting from Lime Street, not from Liverpool Stations - hence the staff at James Street not being able to find it at first. Their own "via Runcorn" comes out at about £12!

They shouldn't have to go to such lengths to sell a basic (and hobbled) ticket from the city centre to a small town in the same city's wider region.

The poster up at Liverpool South Parkway would suggest that it's not only ticket sellers who are finding the lack of sensible interoperability a problem, but that some passengers may well have been financially caught out by a problem which shouldn't exist.

As an additional point to my original, to make matters worse later due to timing it would have been much more time effective for me to return to Liverpool via Birkenhead. But instead I had to wait for the TfW train, and remain on the train to Lime Street (when I would have at least chosen to change at Liverpool South Parkway).
At least the tickets to Liverpool are routed "via Runcorn" rather than "TfW only". This at least means that if you do go on a route not permitted by "via Runcorn" you can get the change of route excess onboard the train, or at your destination, without penalty. If I were travelling on a route restricted ticket I would never 'miss' a train merely because it goes on the 'wrong' route (though I might do so if the excess is massive!).
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Fair enough. Origin station was Llandudno or Llandudno junction.

As these are the stations the trains will originate from eventually , I assumed they would connect well!!
Well, surprisingly enough, the maps have now been updated to allow for travel via Runcorn, but this was only done a week and a half before the new service began - entirely useless for anyone who wanted to buy a ticket to Liverpool via Runcorn from Llandudno before that!

The services from Chester will be brand new between Llandudno (J) and Chester as I understand it, so it's quite logical if they don't currently connect very well.
 

frodshamfella

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I agree with you Frodshamfella, my post was directed at the often poor service received from Merseyrail ticket offices in general. Hope the initial interest in the service continues and it goes from strength to strength.

Here here !!
 

hobbm013

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Question about ticket validity - if I book a ticket Bangor Gwynedd to Liverpool the journey planner routes me through Merseyrail from Chester, would this ticket be valid on the TFW service via the curve?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Question about ticket validity - if I book a ticket Bangor Gwynedd to Liverpool the journey planner routes me through Merseyrail from Chester, would this ticket be valid on the TFW service via the curve?
Yes, it is.
 

childwallblues

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Quite. Merseyrail, the TOC who would have substantially improved (ticketing) service if they closed them all and put a ToD TVM at every station instead. Every time I hear this it makes me sad.
Merseytravel policy is that all Mersey rail stations are staffed first to last train.Unsure about Capenhurst though.
 

vlad

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Merseytravel policy is that all Mersey rail stations are staffed first to last train.Unsure about Capenhurst though.

Bache is unstaffed (unless they've put someone there since I was there last a couple of years ago). I think Capenhurst is the same.
 

jamesst

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They're not in Merseyside, I believe that might be why they're exempt.

Think it's more they never used to be part of the network, the electrics ended at Hooton.
When electrification was extended (on the cheap) the stations were pretty much left untouched. (also on the cheap!) It's only fairly recently the unstaffed stations past Hooton even gained cis screens and ticket machines!!
 

Bletchleyite

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Merseytravel policy is that all Mersey rail stations are staffed first to last train.Unsure about Capenhurst though.

Indeed, but unfortunately they seem to be staffed, in the majority, by staff who don't have the first clue about anything off their own network and can't be bothered finding out about it. Therefore they have lower utility than a TVM with ToD function.
 

STANDISH

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The good news is that the curve has proved its worth over the last two days moving the passengers around the floods at Hooton.
My single fare from Chester to Liverpool was £1.05p cheaper going via Runcorn, rather than via Hooton.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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1012 Chester-Liverpool today (150).
8 got on at Chester, 4 at Helsby, 15 at Frodsham, a handful at Runcorn and nobody at Parkway (I was the only one to get off).
Given it was off-peak but Chester/Liverpool were quite busy generally with tourist traffic (Merseyrail packed), I think that's a bit thin.
Frodsham made it worthwhile, with several groups going right through to Lime St.
 

driver_m

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1012 Chester-Liverpool today (150).
8 got on at Chester, 4 at Helsby, 15 at Frodsham, a handful at Runcorn and nobody at Parkway (I was the only one to get off).
Given it was off-peak but Chester/Liverpool were quite busy generally with tourist traffic (Merseyrail packed), I think that's a bit thin.
Frodsham made it worthwhile, with several groups going right through to Lime St.
It’ll come on in leaps and bounds when it gets stretched into North Wales. You only have to see how many do the change now st Chester to know that a through route with no change will do very well.
 

6Gman

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It’ll come on in leaps and bounds when it gets stretched into North Wales. You only have to see how many do the change now st Chester to know that a through route with no change will do very well.

But which service do you remove to let the Liverpool go into North Wales?

Or will it be 3tph?
 

frodshamfella

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Ive used the route a number of times now from Frodsham found it reliable and pretty well used, but agree once the trains go onwards into Wales it will come into its own.

I came back last Friday from Lime Street at 16.34 , train was busy, a number of passengers with luggage boarded at South Parkway obviously off flights from Liverpool Airport.
 

itfcfan

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1012 Chester-Liverpool today (150).
8 got on at Chester, 4 at Helsby, 15 at Frodsham, a handful at Runcorn and nobody at Parkway (I was the only one to get off).
Given it was off-peak but Chester/Liverpool were quite busy generally with tourist traffic (Merseyrail packed), I think that's a bit thin.
Frodsham made it worthwhile, with several groups going right through to Lime St.

Me and my family were 5 of the 15 that got on at Frodsham today (at 10:26). One of my family lives nearby (not far from Moldsworth) and had been anticipating the improved connection with Liverpool for sometime. You must have missed us at Parkway - we got off there to change to Merseyrail.

After we bought our tickets I helped some of the other people at Frodsham buy theirs. It seems the new service has bought people to the railway who haven't travelled for a long time! One couple mentioned they could only find a £7 return but had heard of a cheaper ticket. I showed them the "Off-Peak Day Return via Runcorn" on the ticket machine - it wasn't the first option shown so it confused them. Another elderly couple struggled to use the machine - the Welsh franchise ticket machine was slower and more complex than the machines I'm used to in London.

From what I saw, the service is already drawing custom from the local area and loadings are healthy. It's easy to say in retrospect, but it's hard to believe it took such a long time to bring the (relatively short) Halton curve back into use and permit this connectivity for the region.
 
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