• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

GWR special non-stop Oxford to Paddington

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
4,008
Very cool - I doubt it could be timetabled often but I wonder if a headline Cotswolds service or two in the peaks would benefit from such an express...
 

Dren Ahmeti

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2017
Messages
550
Location
Bristol
Very cool - I doubt it could be timetabled often but I wonder if a headline Cotswolds service or two in the peaks would benefit from such an express...
You’d never get a clear enough path through Didcot East Junction, in my opinion.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
It's nice to see that GWR are marking the event by doing this. They could have easily left it to the 175th anniversary group to do everything, but they haven't - and they have proved that an OXF - PAD run is possible in under 40mins; a fair bit quicker than the usual 1hr 30!

-Peter
 

BJames

Established Member
Joined
27 Jan 2018
Messages
1,359
Good to see... I've always found this line fairly quick anyway but under 39 minutes is impressive.
It's nice to see that GWR are marking the event by doing this. They could have easily left it to the 175th anniversary group to do everything, but they haven't - and they have proved that an OXF - PAD run is possible in under 40mins; a fair bit quicker than the usual 1hr 30!

-Peter
I thought most services attained this in 1 hour flat usually? The last 2 I have been on took only an hour in each direction.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
Good to see... I've always found this line fairly quick anyway but under 39 minutes is impressive.

I thought most services attained this in 1 hour flat usually? The last 2 I have been on took only an hour in each direction.
Oh OK. I've never travelled the Oxford - London bit by itself; I always travel from just up the Cotswold Line, so for me it's 1.5hrs.

-Peter
 

Nicholas43

Member
Joined
16 Jun 2011
Messages
511
Today's (12 June) run with invited guests was under 38 minutes. Signallers obliged with a clear run into Paddington. Could (in theory) be diagrammed regularly (though in practice of course GWR want everything to stop at Reading).
 

Steve Bray

Member
Joined
20 May 2011
Messages
37
Going back 15 years or so, the Cathedrals Express was timetabled to run non-stop in 43 minutes from PAD to Oxford
 

newtownmgr

Member
Joined
2 Jan 2011
Messages
624
Today’s up Cathedrals is given 2hr15 from Wos - Padd with an IET. When Worcester had the work with a class 50 & 9 coaches we were booked 1hr49 from Wos - Padd. Admittedly we didn’t stop at Hanborough & ran non stop from Oxford but still shows that there’s not really been any progress other than saturating the railway with extra services. In order for that run too have been done today other services would have been delayed or retimed.
 

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,463
Today’s up Cathedrals is given 2hr15 from Wos - Padd with an IET. When Worcester had the work with a class 50 & 9 coaches we were booked 1hr49 from Wos - Padd. Admittedly we didn’t stop at Hanborough & ran non stop from Oxford but still shows that there’s not really been any progress other than saturating the railway with extra services. In order for that run too have been done today other services would have been delayed or retimed.

The main difference between now and the Good Old Days is that we now have passengers.
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
Back in the late last century, around 1998, I used to get a service from Oxford to Paddington around 07:45 to 07:50 ish.

I'm sure it was one of the fastest journeys of the day, a brisk march down to Lancaster Gate and I could be in Threadneedle Street just before 9am.
 

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
4,008
It's cool to see as a one off, but could never be timetabled around today's frequency - which is far better than anomalous fast journeys and erratc timetables. Plus Reading is a proper hub now, both for rail and for mass employment/services.
 

HowardGWR

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2013
Messages
4,983
Two and a half hours is given as the time by car to central London from Worcester. One then has to add to the rail time, the transfer via tube. Rail not competitive on time, so what is its attraction, other than to non-car drivers?
 

davetheguard

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
1,807
Two and a half hours is given as the time by car to central London from Worcester. One then has to add to the rail time, the transfer via tube. Rail not competitive on time, so what is its attraction, other than to non-car drivers?

Because to many rail travel is more pleasant than driving a car; more productive than driving a car (you can work); and greener than driving a car.
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
Back in the late last century, around 1998, I used to get a service from Oxford to Paddington around 07:45 to 07:50 ish.

I'm sure it was one of the fastest journeys of the day, a brisk march down to Lancaster Gate and I could be in Threadneedle Street just before 9am.
Interesting - it appears that it's now possible just about by catching the 07:31 from Oxford to London. Does anyone know the actual year the Cathedrals Express was abolished?
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
Interesting - it appears that it's now possible just about by catching the 07:31 from Oxford to London. Does anyone know the actual year the Cathedrals Express was abolished?
The "Cathedrals Express" last ran on the 12th of June 1965, but GWR still run a service called the "Cathedrals Express".

-Peter
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
And there is nothing "Express" or indeed special about it - its just a normal Padd-Hereford service with the normal stopping pattern!
Yep. I remember going to my nearest station and seeing it go through last year when HSTs were a thing! I also remember being excited when I heard "Cathedrals Express" but then being sad when it was just a HST on a normal service. Not even a sticker in the cab window.

-Peter
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,230
Today’s up Cathedrals is given 2hr15 from Wos - Padd with an IET. When Worcester had the work with a class 50 & 9 coaches we were booked 1hr49 from Wos - Padd. Admittedly we didn’t stop at Hanborough & ran non stop from Oxford but still shows that there’s not really been any progress other than saturating the railway with extra services. In order for that run too have been done today other services would have been delayed or retimed.

It's 2hrs 11 minutes actually. With an IET running on an HST timing, as opposed to what is coming from December. You might also want to admit that the loco-hauled Hereford trains back in the 1980s did not call at Pershore or Honeybourne either and missing out Reading is not an option these days due to the volume of traffic between Oxfordshire and Reading. And how dare GWR and the railway generally run more trains to cope with all the extra passengers that the railways are carrying, compared with the 1980s. Looking at key locations on realtimetrains, I cam see no signs of other services being delayed to allow the special to run.

Two and a half hours is given as the time by car to central London from Worcester. One then has to add to the rail time, the transfer via tube. Rail not competitive on time, so what is its attraction, other than to non-car drivers?

You seem to be forgetting that the AA route planner gives you the typical road journey time - as opposed to the journey time when someone wants to be in central London for 9am, or leave at 5 or 6pm. I'm afraid that the typical traffic volumes on the M40 are unlikely to permit you to manage a 150-minute journey at those times. You also seem to be forgetting the not exactly minor matter of parking a car in central London, if someone was going into London from Worcester for the day.
 

Nicholas43

Member
Joined
16 Jun 2011
Messages
511
...Looking at key locations on realtimetrains, I can see no signs of other services being delayed to allow the special to run.
Having been on the special, I can confirm that. GWR and Network Rail found a path that allowed us to hotly pursue an up from Bristol, and pass it at Reading. At Oxford, a southbound Cross Country had had to be re-allocated to platform 4, to keep platform 3 for the special. The Cross Country was running late, but managed to get to Reading west junction without delaying us.
Of course, such a path is unlikely to be possible from December 2019, when fasts between Didcot and Reading will be every 5 minutes (or so).
 

HowardGWR

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2013
Messages
4,983
You seem to be forgetting that the AA route planner gives you the typical road journey time - as opposed to the journey time when someone wants to be in central London for 9am, or leave at 5 or 6pm. I'm afraid that the typical traffic volumes on the M40 are unlikely to permit you to manage a 150-minute journey at those times. You also seem to be forgetting the not exactly minor matter of parking a car in central London, if someone was going into London from Worcester for the day.
No I hadn't forgotten those things and there also is the opportunity to work on the train, as pointed out by the other poster and then there is price. I would think that nobody commutes ('nine to five' jobs) with private transport into central London, from anywhere, except perhaps chauffeur-driven big cheeses with underground car-parks at their offices, but I think leisure travellers, at least half of pax I believe, could have a different set of issues to deal with in making a choice. I think that the GWR commercial consideration is that neither Worcester, nor Oxford, even together, could generate enough traffic to justify frequent non-stoppers. It's almost a captive market for commuting, except on price, (see competing coach services from Oxford), whereas from Bristol, GWR obviously think that such will be justified all through the day from December. OK, strictly speaking only from and to Bristol Parkway, but BRI (Temple Meads) in 80 minutes with the one stop is not shabby. I presume that GWR has judged that such just knocks any competition into a cocked hat and it still has its 'slow' service (!) via Bath to provide connections at Reading. The Badminton route is a Bath and Chippenham bypass. That is not possible on the Worcester route due to the lack of paths from Didcot, as explained. So it's quantity of the available market and its competitors, that is deciding who gets these non-stop paths, I conclude, with Bristol snaffling nearly the whole lot!
 

Clarence Yard

Established Member
Joined
18 Dec 2014
Messages
2,461
The structure of the timetable has more to do with the DfT and the need to justify the build of the IEP by matching the huge increase in cost by huge revenue increases. The Bristol route has the biggest potential revenue uplift and the DfT, in their draft timetable work, majored on that route getting the faster trains.

What GWR thinks isn't strictly relevant. They are mainly acting here as the DfT's delivery agent.
 

Japan0913

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2017
Messages
232
Will it be a first step towards realizing the following various measures in the future?

◆removal of services starting at Paddington and ending at Didcot Parkway.
◆reduction in services between Oxford and Paddington, in favour of Chiltern Railways service between London Marylebone and Oxford.
◆introduction of a service between Birmingham New Street and London Paddington.

◆increasing service frequency between Paddington and Cheltenham Spa.
◆increasing service frequency between Paddington and Hereford.
 

geoffk

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
3,223
Can someone say if the special changed traction from diesel to electric as it seems unlikely it could achieve that timing on diesel all the way.
 

Dren Ahmeti

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2017
Messages
550
Location
Bristol
Can someone say if the special changed traction from diesel to electric as it seems unlikely it could achieve that timing on diesel all the way.
Would’ve panned up at Moreton Cutting, just past Didcot.
You can see where it does that as it starts to eat into the timings and ends up around 4 Early!
 

Nicholas43

Member
Joined
16 Jun 2011
Messages
511
Can someone say if the special changed traction from diesel to electric as it seems unlikely it could achieve that timing on diesel all the way.
I confirm that we switched to electric at Moreton (as 80x coming from Oxford normally do). My impression was that we accelerated faster than usual. But the really knuckle-whitening bit was dashing through Reading.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top