• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Popular traction - is this a thing? (and similar discussion)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ken H

On Moderation
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,272
Location
N Yorks
ETH shut of and careful use of controller to avoid wheel spin into the tunnels. Deltic on a heavy sleeper out of the cross was always a sight to behold and if a passenger standing by the drop light listen was pure heavy metal

hearing them doing 100mph from nearby road was also good.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
Should be a proper cast iron plate IMHO
Yep. Putting a stick-on name on a loco feels as though the TOC doesn't care enough, which could be seen as offensive by the person who the engine has been named after.

-Peter
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,818
Location
Yorks
Yep. Putting a stick-on name on a loco feels as though the TOC doesn't care enough, which could be seen as offensive by the person who the engine has been named after.

-Peter

And there's the risk that it might fall off - as happened to the loco named "Railwatch" during the otherwise excellent programme of that name.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,164
what a load of sausage meat, in their day the ultimate, even when withdrawn they were at the top of the charts. They were only withdrawn due to operational cost.
None of which is relevant to why I don’t like them - it’s an opinion. Nothing you can say will make me change my mind. Never have liked them and never will.
 

hooverboy

On Moderation
Joined
12 Oct 2017
Messages
1,372
I was around, but as a Midland man "Eastern Region" is a dirty word(s) to me. The superior 45's were our traction of choice! ;)
me too.

you still used to get a bit of variety of traction on MML though. Usually 45 or 47, but you would on occasion get a 31,37 or a 40..even a pair of 25's.

for freight work the usual suspects were 56's on the aggregate/coal and a pair of 25's for the rubbish and cement works.
the latter sometimes got subbed for a 33 which was a bit special.
 
Joined
13 Apr 2011
Messages
623
Location
Helsby
70's kid so grew up with the diesels and a multitude of electric locos on the WCML. Our back garden backed on to the Mouldsworth to West Cheshire Junction line so I has 40's, 25's and 47's and others running past the end of the lawn hauling everything to and from Stanlow, UKF and Vauxhall cars amongst others.
40's and 25's were hauling passenger trains then so regular travel behind them plus my cousin lived in Runcorn so frequent trips down to Crewe behind pretty much all the Class 81 to 87 haulage and Class 304 units.
Heritage units up to Rock Ferry from Helsby and also to Manchester Victoria and up the North Wales coast. Popular traction? For me Class 40 and any of the London bound electric locos from Runcorn were great.
 

-Colly405-

Member
Joined
25 May 2018
Messages
634
Location
Stoke Gifford
Growing up in Plymouth in the 1980s it was most definitley split between the Sulzer followers (46/47) and the 50s. Latter for me.

Also, 08840 (Plymouth station shunter) and P480 (the regular set on the Gunnislakes)...
 

Y Ddraig Coch

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2013
Messages
1,288
coming from North Wales and growing up in the late 80's / early 90's I had an amazing childhood riding backwards and forwards up and down the North Wales coast mainly to Holyhead and back for the scenery and tunnels stood near the drop light at the front to get full effect. Pulling out of Bangor into the tunnel with a bit of thrash was always great!!

For a quiet (ish) line as the North Wales coast was the amount of different traction I rode was remarkable as almost everything was loco hauled then to Holyhead. we had HST, 25's, 33's, 37's 40's, 45's, 47's
 
Last edited:

Fleetwood Boy

Member
Joined
11 Oct 2017
Messages
189
Would I be correct in thinking that rules about type training for drivers were more relaxed back then (eg the stories of 33s appearing here and there)? Or were the locos just more standardised, so that (for example) if you could drive a 25 you could be confident driving a 24, 26, 27 or even a 33? Or was staffing more generous, meaning a route conductor could be rustled up for a driver who signed the loco but not the route?

I've often wondered about how all those old stories of unusual traction appearing in unusual places actually happened - isn't there a story of a Deltic going to Shrewsbury? And strange traction heading off on Summer Saturday jaunts to Blackpool, etc. Surely there weren't any drivers who - for example - signed Class 31s and the route from Preston to Blackpool North in the 1970s? And isn't there an even older story about a GWR steam loco getting to Derby or somewhere, before being found to be out of gauge? Presumably the crew which took it there didn't sign Halls (or whatever it was)?
 

hooverboy

On Moderation
Joined
12 Oct 2017
Messages
1,372
Would I be correct in thinking that rules about type training for drivers were more relaxed back then (eg the stories of 33s appearing here and there)? Or were the locos just more standardised, so that (for example) if you could drive a 25 you could be confident driving a 24, 26, 27 or even a 33? Or was staffing more generous, meaning a route conductor could be rustled up for a driver who signed the loco but not the route?

I've often wondered about how all those old stories of unusual traction appearing in unusual places actually happened - isn't there a story of a Deltic going to Shrewsbury? And strange traction heading off on Summer Saturday jaunts to Blackpool, etc. Surely there weren't any drivers who - for example - signed Class 31s and the route from Preston to Blackpool North in the 1970s? And isn't there an even older story about a GWR steam loco getting to Derby or somewhere, before being found to be out of gauge? Presumably the crew which took it there didn't sign Halls (or whatever it was)?

I think the rules used to be simpler.
for carriages+loco's it was whatever the C number was or the RA number was, unless specifically stated otherwise.
wan't too much in the way of if's,buts or maybe's. either it would fit or it wouldnt.
As long as your route availability number was lower than the route clearance you were good to go.

I think the exception may have been the "slim jim" CL33's.only that sub-class were permitted because of the tunnel width.

these days there are more things taken into consideration like plug-door opening distances and carriage door step sizes.
 

APT618S

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2018
Messages
429
On the 20 Jan 1977 Western D1013 worked the 0730 Swansea - Leeds throughout and 1443 Leeds - Plymouth return.
This was with a Western region crew and Eastern region conductor. So this covers the traction and route knowledge.
Seems there was no spare loco en route to allow a change.

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p138684853/h533CB7E2
 

Shaw S Hunter

Established Member
Joined
21 Apr 2016
Messages
2,912
Location
Sunny South Lancs
On the 20 Jan 1977 Western D1013 worked the 0730 Swansea - Leeds throughout and 1443 Leeds - Plymouth return.
This was with a Western region crew and Eastern region conductor. So this covers the traction and route knowledge.
Seems there was no spare loco en route to allow a change.

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p138684853/h533CB7E2

You will notice that D1013 is in reasonably good external condition. This was very close to the end of Western operations and D1013 was very much a pet loco. I rather suspect this working was fixed.
 

ac6000cw

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2014
Messages
3,121
Location
Cambridge, UK
It's often relative, particularly to what era you were born in and where abouts you live.

Example - to the majority of 'old skool' enthusiasts, the new Hitachi 80X trains will be seen as the devil. To a 5 year old seeing his/her first ever train, it's a sleek futuristic train that they'll have many journeys on become attached to as they reach middle age, and they start to be withdrawn.

If you want a historical proof of concept, you can wind the clock back 40 years apply almost exactly the same logic to the HST...

There are exceptions. Voyagers seemed to be universally disliked from day 1, and om the flipside Class 68's have always been well followed.

I'm not particularly nostalgic about machines as such - it's the 'theatrics' of traction that moves them up and down my personal rankings (especially the noise they make), so I like both modern and old stuff. I grew up in the Birmingham area, so lots of Sulzers big (45/46/47) and small (24/25), plus the odd Western, but the raucous chugging noise a pair of 25's could make is way more preferable to any big Sulzer in my book. But my favourite Sulzer is the 33 - fond memories of them being thrashed between Reading and Poole on inter-regional trains (85 mph loco + 9 Mk1's on a 100 mph mainline - it seemed to be full power all the way...)

I'm not a great fan of turbo scream, so a bit ambivalent about Valenta-powered HST's (and the MTU re-powers are just too quiet, but nicely 'mechanical' sounding). The class 40 'whistling' is fine though - was hauled over Shap and Beattock on a Manchester-Edinburgh excursion by one once :D.

Electrics - generally 'yawn', except for charismatic old stuff like 76's and the old continental European jackshaft/side-rod driven locos - and the musical Taurus of course...

Modern stuff - 68's and 185's (and 153's, just for the noise on the inside), 57's - and 66's/67's when being worked hard. 185's do a passable imitation of a Western at times.

But just to show that noise appeals to enthusiasts, out of the 40-odd videos I've put on YouTube, by far the most popular have been the noisy ones - one with 68's (and a 67) at Banbury has had 19k+ views in 4 years, and another with a procession of big GE's passing through downtown Kamloops in Western Canada has clocked up 3.6k+ views in 15 months. That's compared to a few hundred views per year for most of the rest, even though some of those are visually more interesting. (My videos sorted by popularity are here - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBg-DysQK2NyRmsDSn_iahA/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid - if you like your loco noises 'Western' style, the White Pass and Yukon one is quite a good blast, with a pair of lusty Cummins V12's wailing away...)
 

SWRtrain_fan

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2018
Messages
378
Location
Berkshire
Personally I really like Desiros because I like the UFO noise made by them, in particular I like the third rail Desiros like the 444s and 450s
 

reddragon

Established Member
Joined
24 Mar 2016
Messages
3,145
Location
Churn (closed)
Rule 1 - what is being displaced is popular (in particular if around a long time) and the replacement is unpopular.

Think diesels replacing steam, HSTs / MU replacing locos etc

Rule 2 - some trains really were crap, unreliable heaps of junk with no go sound effects. Some early diesels like class 16,21,41 (basically all North British) ,and later 58 some DMUs / EMUs were quite awful - class 307 / 140 / 141 etc
Class 220s seem to be unpopular because they stink, both diesel & toilets, rattle & fail when wet.

Rule 3 - too many / dull locos - class 47 (duff because they failed a lot) or class 66 (too many).

Rule 4 - some really sounded good, gave a thrill or were better than the rest of similar types - class 20,37,50,52,55 and now class 68 because it looks good too - DMUs - class 123,124 or Blue Pullman, EMUs such as class 309 or 303 and 4REPs - class 430

Rule 5 - some locos gain cult status

Class 52 due to their sound & style
Class 55 due to their shear power, presence and performance. I can tell you 117mph behind Black Watch down Stoke bank in Mark 1s isn't something you forget!

HST - simply because it saved UK railways and remains the fastest diesel of all time. Before they were reigned in by H&S they'd go well over 125 and gave end to end times unmatched today.
 

duesselmartin

Established Member
Joined
18 Jan 2014
Messages
1,902
Location
Duisburg, Germany
My favorite loco is the NIR Class 111 as it was the first UK train I used.
As to DMUs. I loved the comfort of Scotrail's 158.
Best wishes from Germany.
Martin
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,164
Personally I really like Desiros because I like the UFO noise made by them, in particular I like the third rail Desiros like the 444s and 450s
So you’ve heard a UFO then?

Presumably there are aliens out there somewhere in the universe on ufoforums who say they like UFOs because they sound like a Desiro...
 

SWRtrain_fan

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2018
Messages
378
Location
Berkshire
So you’ve heard a UFO then?

Presumably there are aliens out there somewhere in the universe on ufoforums who say they like UFOs because they sound like a Desiro...
Sorry, 'UFO' was not really the right way to describe it. What I meant is, I like the sound of Desiros accelerating and decelerating.
 

Grannyjoans

Member
Joined
29 Mar 2017
Messages
403
Hello all,
Having been looking through YouTube videos of people talking about the days of BR in the 1980s, apparently there were cases of some classes of traction being more popular than others. E.g. popuar model railway YouTuber IC82 has said that the Class 58 was regarded as "rubbish" by many enthusiasts and was not popular. What traction has been popular/unpopular in the past? What's popular now? I know I probably sound really uncool and out of tune with the world of railways, but seen as I have only recently gotten into the different traction types and the work that surrounds them (exams, diagrams, etc.).
Any help greatly appreciated.

-Peter

A lot of the popularity depends on how good it looks and sounds. The class 37 is one of the main examples, but most of the BR locomotives are popular. There are not many of them to see these days. Most of their fans were out watching them pre-2000's. Out of the recent designs, the 68's.

The class 66 is very unpopular, they don't look or sound that good, and there are more of them than all the other locomotives put together. But most would still rather see a 66 than a unit.
 
Last edited:

Grannyjoans

Member
Joined
29 Mar 2017
Messages
403
67's sound slightly better than 66's as they have more bass and idle at higher RPM. They still don't sound brilliant though. Overall I don't have anything against them as they're such a small class, unlike the 66's which are just monotonous.
 

Chris217

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2018
Messages
620
Coming from Cardiff myself
You would expect class 37s to be a favourite.
Yes,they are,especially seeing triple headers on the Iron Ore trains...
Usually 37299-308.
That was in the late 70s when Cardiff Central offered an extensive variety of trains to see and travel on.
25s on the Cardiff-Crewe line
31s on Cardiff- Bristol TM
47s and sometimes Peaks on inter-regional trains.
HST's on the Swansea-London route
A varied collection of different DMU classes ranging from class117,119,120
on mainline and the beloved Class 116 Valley line sets affectionately known locally as C3's.
Love the lot of them to be honest.

Then we got the class 33 invasion in the 80s which was awesome,then
Introduction of Sprinter types.
150s on the Valleys and 155s on the mainline.
Hated 155s with a passion.

I moved to Liverpool in 1989 and was introduced to Pacers which I liked quite a bit as they were very different to what I was used to.

As an enthusiast from 1976 onwards
I have always preferred Loco and coaches.
Cannot get myself interested in EMU's and most modern DMU's that are out now.

With most of what I had grown up with being withdrawn,I look to the current offering and what would be my opinion of that?
Ok,66s you either like them or loath them.
For me,it has taken me a while to warm to them.
I do enjoy seeing them hauling heavy freight trains and believe them to be very reliable.
Don't rate them as a passenger train loco though 67s are slightly better and class 201s in Ireland better still if you're into GM's.
Cannot be fussed on Pendalino and IEP trains.
Hate Voyagers more than anything though.

As an aside,whilst doing the Severn Valley Gala a few weeks ago reminded me why I liked 31s so much back in the day....talk about tears in my eyes lol.
I am so thankful many heritage classes have been saved. Just a shame heritage line speeds are too low.
 

richieb1971

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2013
Messages
1,935
Being on the MML, I always liked to see a 47 in the 80's. Most common traction was 451**.

I used to get excited if I saw a 20, 37 or 40 because they were really uncommon. I used to look at my books and magazines and think those locos only being in fantasy worlds.

Mind you, in 1976-7 I started seeing big numbered 56's from my school class room when I only about 7 or 8 years old. This meant I could train spot from school, rather nice of BR to assist in my hobby from school.

I only like old traction now because its rare. I like diversity more than any one class.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
Being on the MML, I always liked to see a 47 in the 80's. Most common traction was 451**.

I used to get excited if I saw a 20, 37 or 40 because they were really uncommon. I used to look at my books and magazines and think those locos only being in fantasy worlds.

Mind you, in 1976-7 I started seeing big numbered 56's from my school class room when I only about 7 or 8 years old. This meant I could train spot from school, rather nice of BR to assist in my hobby from school.

I only like old traction now because its rare. I like diversity more than any one class.
Interesting. I think that having a range of locos is definitely better than having one or two; all of my local stations have no more than 3 or so classes of DMU go through and so whilst it is good for seeing a whole class quickly, it means that it takes longer to see other classes and it also gets boring quickly! :)

-Peter
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top