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Class 345 progress

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samuelmorris

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In many ways it is so very bad that passengers using Maryland, Forest Gate and Manor Park are being shafted in this way. Being told to use local buses is not a solution - not just because of the extended journey times but also because passengers are being financially penalised through no fault of their own. OK, so the bus 'only' costs £1.50, but even that amount to someone on a restricted income (eg: low income, state benefits) can 'break the bank'. To my eyes it is wrong that passengers should be expected to pay anything extra. They should be able to collect two free bus saver tickets - one for their required bus journey and one as compensation for the inconvenience.

In times past these stations had a 20 minute interval off-peak service. Even reverting to this would be better than simply closing the station and leaving passengers in the lurch / to fend for themselves. The 345's have very good acceleration, which should also help.

It will not endear the people who live to the east of London to the Elizabeth line if they find that at weekends they have nothing! Its bad enough that the bay at Ilford has been sacrificed (OK a different issue, but still something that disbenefits the route)



So if track works sees the two track section extending all the way to Gidea Park, does it mean that local trains will not call at any intermediate stations? Or will they just call at the busier station - Ilford and Romford?

btw, Ilford is my local station.
Is this about the engineering work? I haven't heard any news that these stations are receiving any permanent reduction in service, unless I missed something? These stops being closed with bus replacement is not ideal but considering how often the whole line has been closed at weekends for the past 10 years, it just seems like more of the same to me. £1.50 paid for a bus fare is instead of £1.50 paid for a train to Stratford, so there's no additional financial hardship, just no recompense for the inconvenience.
 
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hwl

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Signalling transition zone testing at Stratford on several successive Sundays at the moment.
 

700007

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In many ways it is so very bad that passengers using Maryland, Forest Gate and Manor Park are being shafted in this way. Being told to use local buses is not a solution - not just because of the extended journey times but also because passengers are being financially penalised through no fault of their own. OK, so the bus 'only' costs £1.50, but even that amount to someone on a restricted income (eg: low income, state benefits) can 'break the bank'. To my eyes it is wrong that passengers should be expected to pay anything extra. They should be able to collect two free bus saver tickets - one for their required bus journey and one as compensation for the inconvenience.

In times past these stations had a 20 minute interval off-peak service. Even reverting to this would be better than simply closing the station and leaving passengers in the lurch / to fend for themselves. The 345's have very good acceleration, which should also help.

It will not endear the people who live to the east of London to the Elizabeth line if they find that at weekends they have nothing! Its bad enough that the bay at Ilford has been sacrificed (OK a different issue, but still something that disbenefits the route)



So if track works sees the two track section extending all the way to Gidea Park, does it mean that local trains will not call at any intermediate stations? Or will they just call at the busier station - Ilford and Romford?

btw, Ilford is my local station.
The £1.50 bus fare is the same as the £1.50 train fare to get into Stratford at least - May be a bit more if you want Liverpool Street however the market for this is fairly small on a Sunday and would not disbenefit most people. If it is genuinely an issue to get into Liverpool Street for more than £1.50, from Maryland it isn't that long a walk to Stratford, and from Forest Gate and Manor Park you can walk to Wanstead Park or Woodgrange Park, get the Overground to Barking for a c2c service into London (Fenchurch Street is a lovely 7 minute walk away from Liverpool Street) or change at Walthamstow Queens Road for a Lea Valley LO service into Liverpool Street which will not cost more than had you had a TfL Rail service available.

If a two track timetable was to be reinstated then the old Sunday timetable from two weeks ago would probably be dug up again which used to operate in this manner. There was also one weekend two years ago where it was something like four track to Chadwell Heath and two track beyond there where it was decided that TfL Rail would run Liverpool Street to Chadwell Heath, then most Greater Anglia trains would make additional stops at Chadwell Heath, Romford, Gidea Park, Harold Wood and Brentwood. If I remember correctly, all trains except the Norwich intercity stopped at Romford, then the Braintree, one of the Southends and the odd Clacton-on-Sea would stop at the other station.
 

700007

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The £1.50 bus fare is the same as the £1.50 train fare to get into Stratford at least - May be a bit more if you want Liverpool Street however the market for this is fairly small on a Sunday and would not disbenefit most people. If it is genuinely an issue to get into Liverpool Street for more than £1.50, from Maryland it isn't that long a walk to Stratford, and from Forest Gate and Manor Park you can walk to Wanstead Park or Woodgrange Park, get the Overground to Barking for a c2c service into London (Fenchurch Street is a lovely 7 minute walk away from Liverpool Street) or change at Walthamstow Queens Road for a Lea Valley LO service into Liverpool Street which will not cost more than had you had a TfL Rail service available.

If a two track timetable was to be reinstated then the old Sunday timetable from two weeks ago would probably be dug up again which used to operate in this manner. There was also one weekend two years ago where it was something like four track to Chadwell Heath and two track beyond there where it was decided that TfL Rail would run Liverpool Street to Chadwell Heath, then most Greater Anglia trains would make additional stops at Chadwell Heath, Romford, Gidea Park, Harold Wood and Brentwood. If I remember correctly, all trains except the Norwich intercity stopped at Romford, then the Braintree, one of the Southends and the odd Clacton-on-Sea would stop at the other station.
Sorry, I should have also quoted @simple simon as well.
 

simple simon

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In many ways it is so very bad that passengers using Maryland, Forest Gate and Manor Park are being shafted in this way. Being told to use local buses is not a solution - not just because of the extended journey times but also because passengers are being financially penalised through no fault of their own. OK, so the bus 'only' costs £1.50, but even that amount to someone on a restricted income (eg: low income, state benefits) can 'break the bank'. To my eyes it is wrong that passengers should be expected to pay anything extra. They should be able to collect two free bus saver tickets - one for their required bus journey and one as compensation for the inconvenience.

In times past these stations had a 20 minute interval off-peak service. Even reverting to this would be better than simply closing the station and leaving passengers in the lurch / to fend for themselves. The 345's have very good acceleration, which should also help.

It will not endear the people who live to the east of London to the Elizabeth line if they find that at weekends they have nothing! Its bad enough that the bay at Ilford has been sacrificed (OK a different issue, but still something that disbenefits the route)

(rest of message edit out)

I think I have been misunderstood - what passengers are expected to do is instead of using their local station they should catch a bus to either Ilford or Stratford stations and then change for the train. This means that the £1.50 bus fare is in addition to the train fare, with yet another bus fare on their return journey.

It is no longer possible to travel by through bus from the areas served by the GEML to London's West End, as in anticipation of the through Elizabeth Line trains TfL have shortened bus route 25 so that it no longer reaches Oxford Circus - this is despite the reality that the trains have not started running beyond Liverpool Street! Anyway, traffic congestion and snail slow 20mph zones make buses so slow nowadays its almost like a punishment to expect passengers to use them for long distance journeys instead of far faster trains.

But how do we know that passengers will be going to the West End? Many passengers will be going to other destinations in Central London and when planning their travels would have expected to pay single through fare from their local station to the nearest Underground station to their intended destination. Not separate bus and train 'unfares'.

Of course if London had a more enlightened ticketing system then the bus element of the journey would not have incurred an extra charge, I've experienced such ticketing systems overseas.

Just to conclude, I am aghast at the thought that every time there is track maintenance which reduces the GEML down to a two track railway, east London Elizabeth Line passengers will be treated as what amounts to third class nuisances who are seen as easy prey for inconveniencing and therefore have all railway services withdrawn from their local stations.
 
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rebmcr

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Just to conclude, I am aghast at the thought that every time there is track maintenance which reduces the GEML down to a two track railway, east London Elizabeth Line passengers will be treated as what amounts to third class nuisances who are seen as easy prey for inconveniencing and therefore have all railway services withdrawn from their local stations.

The very specific reason for this timetable, is that the Crossrail tracks through Bow are under possession for signalling testing.

On future weekends when that's not the case, other reasons for running a two-track timetable east of Stratford should see a more balanced service.
 

Shunter_69

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GE passengers have been hugely affected by the Crossrail works for years. 3 stations with no weekend service that have a decent local bus service seems like a sensible idea
 

Julia

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I noticed 345141 (?) idle at Westbourne Park earlier this week - is this a 7-car or 9-car? Is there a reliable list of which units are in which formation at the moment?
 

JonathanH

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I noticed 345141 (?) idle at Westbourne Park earlier this week - is this a 7-car or 9-car? Is there a reliable list of which units are in which formation at the moment?

Only 345002-17/22 are in 7-car formation. 345001 has 345022's extra cars - 345001/2/4 are test units and not in service - everything else is 9-car.

There is no chopping and changing of unit lengths going on.
 

43055

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Only 345002-17/22 are in 7-car formation. 345001 has 345022's extra cars - 345001/2/4 are test units and not in service - everything else is 9-car.

There is no chopping and changing of unit lengths going on.
345002 is currently at Bombardier as a 7 car
345001 is due back soon to get ready to go south and 345018 is at Melton replacing 345001 as the test unit there.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I noticed 345141 (?) idle at Westbourne Park earlier this week - is this a 7-car or 9-car? Is there a reliable list of which units are in which formation at the moment?

It's 345 041; I got a picture of it but I'm at work at the moment so I can't post it up for now.

Edited to add pictures of 345 041 at Westbourne Park on Monday ( 3rd June ).
 

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kevin_roche

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In Mark Wild's May monthly report to Florence Eshalomi Chair of the London Assembly Transport Committee he says:

As mentioned in my previous update, due to a safety critical issue in the software process we did not start close-headway testing as planned on 18 March. For this reason, fewer signalling tests have been performed and passed than previously planned. An independent review of the underlying causes of these failures has been undertaken. A final set of evidence is due from the contractor in late May, and following on from this, we will make every effort to commence close headway multi-train testing in June.

The access time allocated for dynamic testing has therefore been occupied to a much greater extent by non-signalling tests. All platform screen door physical tests have now been completed and passed, and all overhead line compliance tests within the central operating section have also been successfully completed.
 

samuelmorris

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Starting from today the 345 PISs have the ability to showcase live status updates for all TfL lines.
I don't wish to sound overly negative, but that's a long time coming. I'm still surprised it wasn't there from day 1, it was on the 700s even if it didn't work properly to begin with! I suppose it's less important as the units still aren't operating a tube-like service but even so, about time!

That said, do they work Victoria line-style in that there is an audio announcement about all the delays on each line after every station? That does get a bit tiresome!
 

700007

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I don't wish to sound overly negative, but that's a long time coming. I'm still surprised it wasn't there from day 1, it was on the 700s even if it didn't work properly to begin with! I suppose it's less important as the units still aren't operating a tube-like service but even so, about time!

That said, do they work Victoria line-style in that there is an audio announcement about all the delays on each line after every station? That does get a bit tiresome!
No, I fully agree with you. I don't understand why it took so long when Thameslink, which is not operated by TfL, shows accurate round the minute TfL travel status.

This was only partially compensated last year when station announcements started announcing the status of the lines every 15 minutes.

They don't announce the individual delay to each line I believe. There were delays on the Victoria line and London Overground this evening and it didn't mention it in audio, only on the screen.
 

WindsorJoe

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A question here, is Hayes and Harlington bay platform ready for 9 Class 345s? If the bay platform is ready, then would it not be a good idea to run 9 car 345s. I’m guessing the platform at Hayes is not ready. Running 9 cars it would be good for driver training and stopping marks and would release 4 345s to be able to be converted form 7 to 9 Cars. I’m guessing either the bay platform at Hayes is not ready or platforms on the relief lines are not ready?
 

samuelmorris

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No, I fully agree with you. I don't understand why it took so long when Thameslink, which is not operated by TfL, shows accurate round the minute TfL travel status.

This was only partially compensated last year when station announcements started announcing the status of the lines every 15 minutes.

They don't announce the individual delay to each line I believe. There were delays on the Victoria line and London Overground this evening and it didn't mention it in audio, only on the screen.
Just seen this in action. It uh, still needs a bit of work!
I can understand why they chose not to fit all the lines on one screen like on the Thameslink units, but the overground status is off the edge of the screen and in so doing is causing some funky visual corruption in that area of the screen. Come on guys, it shouldn't be that difficult :)

https://imgur.com/1AHFNUH
 
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Wolfie

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In many ways it is so very bad that passengers using Maryland, Forest Gate and Manor Park are being shafted in this way. Being told to use local buses is not a solution - not just because of the extended journey times but also because passengers are being financially penalised through no fault of their own. OK, so the bus 'only' costs £1.50, but even that amount to someone on a restricted income (eg: low income, state benefits) can 'break the bank'. To my eyes it is wrong that passengers should be expected to pay anything extra. They should be able to collect two free bus saver tickets - one for their required bus journey and one as compensation for the inconvenience.

In times past these stations had a 20 minute interval off-peak service. Even reverting to this would be better than simply closing the station and leaving passengers in the lurch / to fend for themselves. The 345's have very good acceleration, which should also help.

It will not endear the people who live to the east of London to the Elizabeth line if they find that at weekends they have nothing! Its bad enough that the bay at Ilford has been sacrificed (OK a different issue, but still something that disbenefits the route)



So if track works sees the two track section extending all the way to Gidea Park, does it mean that local trains will not call at any intermediate stations? Or will they just call at the busier station - Ilford and Romford?

btw, Ilford is my local station.
It's no different to any other engineering work. Happens all too often.
 

samuelmorris

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In other news, while at Romford I've just been informed a train has failed at Chadwell Heath with a door fault. Don't know whether it's a 345 or not though.
 

Wolfie

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I think I have been misunderstood - what passengers are expected to do is instead of using their local station they should catch a bus to either Ilford or Stratford stations and then change for the train. This means that the £1.50 bus fare is in addition to the train fare, with yet another bus fare on their return journey.

It is no longer possible to travel by through bus from the areas served by the GEML to London's West End, as in anticipation of the through Elizabeth Line trains TfL have shortened bus route 25 so that it no longer reaches Oxford Circus - this is despite the reality that the trains have not started running beyond Liverpool Street! Anyway, traffic congestion and snail slow 20mph zones make buses so slow nowadays its almost like a punishment to expect passengers to use them for long distance journeys instead of far faster trains.

But how do we know that passengers will be going to the West End? Many passengers will be going to other destinations in Central London and when planning their travels would have expected to pay single through fare from their local station to the nearest Underground station to their intended destination. Not separate bus and train 'unfares'.

Of course if London had a more enlightened ticketing system then the bus element of the journey would not have incurred an extra charge, I've experienced such ticketing systems overseas.

Just to conclude, I am aghast at the thought that every time there is track maintenance which reduces the GEML down to a two track railway, east London Elizabeth Line passengers will be treated as what amounts to third class nuisances who are seen as easy prey for inconveniencing and therefore have all railway services withdrawn from their local stations.
London has probably the most flexible and passenger friendly public transport ticketing system in this country. Your comments to the contrary severely undermine any credibility that your comments have.
 

Ethano92

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A 345 failed at Goodmayes this morning following a door fault. Passengers also complained Air Conditioning and WiFi not working so train was going three for three!
Even when the air conditioning fails, the units are still pumping fresh air in right? Since there are any any openable windows. Guessing the 700s, 710s etc are the same
 

samuelmorris

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3600 miles per technical incident when the target is 10000 miles reliability needs to be higher and TfL are seeking payment from bombardier for the low reliability.
And neither air conditioning nor WiFi failures will count as technical incidents under that score, though to be fair, WiFi has never once worked for me on a moving vehicle, I don't know why people bother with it...

The A/C units on 345s make a real racket when they're actually doing work, not just loud fans like on Desiros but mechanical noise that makes them sound like they could break at any moment. Are they just cheap knock-off units? The A/C fitted to, for example, the S stock seems to work wonders considering how challenging an environment for A/C they work in.
 

Bessie

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Just seen 345 057 pass through Southall being dragged by Class 37 601 Perseus en route to delivery to OOC
 
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G_A_C_C_C

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This might be a stupid question, and it might have already been covered.....but why are 345's being dragged form OOC for storage at Worksop? The depot space for all 70 units must be available as the line is supposed to be open - only issues with stations, signalling etc cause this to be delayed. So why isn't there enough space now? Where are these units to be kept when the line opens fully that isn't available now?
 

samuelmorris

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This might be a stupid question, and it might have already been covered.....but why are 345's being dragged form OOC for storage at Worksop? The depot space for all 70 units must be available as the line is supposed to be open - only issues with stations, signalling etc cause this to be delayed. So why isn't there enough space now? Where are these units to be kept when the line opens fully that isn't available now?
The existing 360s and 315s are also still in use, so not all the storage space is available.
 
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