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Northern Class 170's

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Mogster

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Same feeling here. Was getting ready to use the bus instead.

It says something to be pining for a 15 year old cast off.

I can sympathise. I felt the same when TPEs 350s were withdrawn from Wigan - Manchester. Returning to Northern’s 142s and 150s was a serious culture shock...
 
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bluesfromagun

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Speaking about 170 performance, whilst they are slower off the mark than a 158 it's not a huge difference, they are totally interchangeable with 158s up here on commuter work. For example, the Fife circle is probably similar to the work they are doing in Yorkshire, with a brief spell of 100 (where you get to about 85), other than that you are pretty much 65 or so and they are fine with that. Not great with hills but neither are 158s. The transmission change at 70mph is where they really start to outperform a 158 though, that is true. They really aren't that bad, like everything they vary from unit to unit, the only niggly thing with them compared to a 158 is the delay between taking power and it actually doing what you want it to. A 158 responds instantly, a 170 has maybe a 3sec gap between you moving the throttle and the revs actually changing.
 

SideshowBob

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Just gone past this - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60275/2019/06/13/advanced - as it sat waiting for its green light to enter Leeds station. It was 6 coaches (2x 170 coupled up). Both trains with all internal lights on and destination boards on and correct. Would this formation fit in all platforms along the route, particularly Knaresborough, or would they be using SDO (selective door operation) - assuming 170s have SDO?
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Just gone past this - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60275/2019/06/13/advanced - as it sat waiting for its green light to enter Leeds station. It was 6 coaches (2x 170 coupled up). Both trains with all internal lights on and destination boards on and correct. Would this formation fit in all platforms along the route, particularly Knaresborough, or would they be using SDO (selective door operation) - assuming 170s have SDO?

But were there any passengers in the rear unit? It's quite possible that the rear unit was simply locked out of use even though the saloon lights were on.
 

SideshowBob

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But were there any passengers in the rear unit? It's quite possible that the rear unit was simply locked out of use even though the saloon lights were on.
As far as I could see, the whole train was empty of passengers (both units). Doesn't mean there was no-one on it, mind you; just that if there was, I couldn't see them.
 

Halifaxlad

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Late in the evenings they usually drag a second unit with them to Harrogate. Im not sure if this is to ensure they're is sufficent stock at Harrogate in the morning or whenever it is because they'res too many being stored at Leeds. Which is especially hounded now by the fact they are considerably longer than 14 & 15 xs.
 

SideshowBob

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Late in the evenings they usually drag a second unit with them to Harrogate. Im not sure if this is to ensure they're is sufficent stock at Harrogate in the morning or whenever it is because they'res too many being stored at Leeds. Which is especially hounded now by the fact they are considerably longer than 14 & 15 xs.
Surely there's a more efficient way to do that than dragging a second unit the whole way from York to Leeds via Harrogate, and then all the way back to Harrogate from Leeds with the 23:39 service (which only goes as far as Harrogate), especially given that the 170s are said to be running very inefficiently on that route anyway as they can't get out of 1st gear?
 
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Halifaxlad

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Surely there's a more efficient way to do that than dragging a second unit the whole way from York to Leeds via Harrogate, and then all the way back to Harrogate from Leeds with the 23:39 service (which only goes as far as Harrogate), especially given that the 170s are said to be running very inefficiently on that route anyway as they can't get out of 1st gear?

I suspect the reason why they do it that way is because only a few book on at Harrogate in comparison to Leeds. The simplest answer would be to extend the platforms so that the second unit could be used!

(Not 100% positive if its aiding the leading 170 or whenever it is actually being dragged)
 

Shaw S Hunter

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I suspect the reason why they do it that way is because only a few book on at Harrogate in comparison to Leeds. The simplest answer would be to extend the platforms so that the second unit could be used!

(Not 100% positive if its aiding the leading 170 or whenever it is actually being dragged)

I think that Harrogate is a base for conductors only with drivers having to come from Leeds (or York). And no dragging going on, just coupled together and working in multiple. Such coupling of excess empty units, especially in the evenings, is not unusual: my favourite was a mid-evening Wallgate-Man Vic which was booked for 3x142 with typically only the front set in public use. The whole lot went to Newton Heath on arrival at Victoria.
 

SideshowBob

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I suspect the reason why they do it that way is because only a few book on at Harrogate in comparison to Leeds. The simplest answer would be to extend the platforms so that the second unit could be used!

(Not 100% positive if its aiding the leading 170 or whenever it is actually being dragged)

I think that Harrogate is a base for conductors only with drivers having to come from Leeds (or York). And no dragging going on, just coupled together and working in multiple. Such coupling of excess empty units, especially in the evenings, is not unusual: my favourite was a mid-evening Wallgate-Man Vic which was booked for 3x142 with typically only the front set in public use. The whole lot went to Newton Heath on arrival at Victoria.

Sorry, yes, I meant working in multiple as opposed to dragging; my mistake! :oops:

Just seems a bit much using all that extra diesel for multiple working if you don't have SDO for when you need it - unless 170s do have SDO?

Extending platforms wouldn't be possible everywhere on the route, especially at Knaresborough where the platforms are sandwiched between a tunnel and a level crossing. There'd be complexities at stations with single line sections either side and a passing loop through the stations themselves giving two platforms - off the top of my head, I think Hammerton and Cattal are like that - so presumably extending platforms there would necessitate reconfiguring the track layout too. Not saying it shouldn't happen just because of that, though, especially if SDO was available to use for multiple-unit working at stations where platform extension wouldn't be feasible.
 

bluenoxid

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I’ve just passed through Doncaster with what I assumed to be a Northern 170 in platform 3
on what I assumed to be the 0703 Beverley to Sheffield service. I assume that I’ve missed this move based on previous posts.
 

Killingworth

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Travelled 'first class' from Doncaster to Sheffield yesterday on 170, ex Bridlington. Only other occupant off duty Northern member of staff. Single seat reclining mechanism broken, but the unrefurbished Scotrail unit a big improvement on any Northern train previously ever travelled on. Very smooth runner.

My following refurbished 150 on the Hope Valley service was already showing signs of wear and tear.
 

Kieran1990

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The refurbishment front's gone a bit quiet lately - any particular reason why?

Could be down to as many Class 170s as possible being required for day to day diagramming due to the later arrival of Class 195s and the Class 158s being on loan for the Manchester- Cumbria services.
As also said above- they are app compliant so I suspect Northern aren’t in a rush with them.
 

anamyd

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At a guess, the 170s being already pretty much compliant with the accessibility standards (might be one or two tweaks needed) would mean that prioritising older stock makes sense.
Three 170 subclasses weren't quite Persons with Reduced Mobility - Technical Specifications for Interoperability compliant - each for a single, different reason (/2 Phase 1s derogated for grab rail positioning, /?s had their entry steps "tweaked" and not sure about the /1s but they were if I recall correctly door control positioning on driving vehicles only) but I don't believe that Northern's /4s were one of them, being the 2004-2005 late 170 builds
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Only about two 170 subclasses weren't quite PRM-TSI compliant (one derogated, one "tweaked") and I don't believe the /4s were one of them.
Cheers. My memory was telling me that the Scottish units were quite early builds, so I figured that they might be among those that require minor changes or derogation.
 

anamyd

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Cheers. My memory was telling me that the Scottish units were quite early builds, so I figured that they might be among those that require minor changes or derogation.
Class 170/4 includes anything from 1999-2001, to 2004-2005 builds for ScotRail. Perhaps ironically, the ones that transferred to Northern are all from the later 2004-2005 production!
 

PomWombat

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The refurbishment front's gone a bit quiet lately - any particular reason why?
I also reckon that a good chunk of the unrefurbished ones are 453-457, fitted with first class cabins at each end.

Perhaps the work to return these to standard class is going to take too long, when 150s need priority.
 

superkev

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I wonder if Northerns 170s dont like the heat as a couple of substitutions on the Harrogate line recently including a 155 and a 158.
K
 

darloscott

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I wonder if Northerns 170s dont like the heat as a couple of substitutions on the Harrogate line recently including a 155 and a 158.
K
Depends when you saw them as they both have booked work on Harrogate line with a few services each day anyway (as do 142s)
 

superkev

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As reported on the Northern refurb thread repainted etc 170 461 is returning to Neville hill.
Its place at Crewe being taken by 170 453.
K
 

YorksDMU

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Today I travelled to York from Beverley. The 13.10, Hull to York was formed of 170 457. Then on the return leg, the 17.18, Hull to Bridlington, was formed of the same unit. I sat in first class each time, and the AC was in full working order.
Here’s a photo’ I took of 170 457 as it departed Beverley for Bridlington.

54DF6FED-9E00-4BC5-8D06-5220D712DA62.jpeg
 

Harvey B

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Apperantly a Class 170 was booked to work the 1719 Barrow-in-Furness to carnforth today (according to Northernassist on twitter)
Screenshot_20190807-190004_Twitter.jpg Screenshot_20190807-190018_Twitter.jpg
I only know them to go on the Harrogate line and operate the Sheffield to Bridlington services
 

Harvey B

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170s aren't old apparently. Are we in 2005 again...? :lol:
Depending on how you look at it they are and they aren't.
They are old units but if we're comparing them to Sprinters and Pacers they aren't as old as said trains.
 

anamyd

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Depending on how you look at it they are and they aren't.
They are old units but if we're comparing them to Sprinters and Pacers they aren't as old as said trains.
yeah I know :p I went on two different 170s for two different TOCs today, I do like them :D
 
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