TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

SP Man · 15 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
And there does come a point, with building work, where it's done so badly/beyond schedule that a Court would see it as reasonable to withhold payment and get another builder in to fix it instead using the money withheld.

Where is the evidence that the build work is done badly and beyond schedule. Most of the sets are built already. Most of the issues are software based and balancing between the 68 (different company) and the stock. It would also need to be asked what was the original design spec by the client, if that was wrong then CAF only built to what was asked. Lots of different issues and definitely all sitting with the manufacturer. I remember when the 185s where built, they where built to a cheap spec and the Siemen (German) staff I worked with was amazed that we thought them good and made a point of showing us their other trains for other countries where the basic class was far superior to other 1st class.this is a bit like CAF, the British have specified a very old fashioned braking system (twin pipe with overcharge facility) where they are used to modern electronic braking and have to make the old design fit modern safety levels and old gr

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SP Man · 15 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I'm not sure, but I think it's a fault with business as a whole, aka "the race to the bottom". When you buy a car, do you look for the cheapest model, or do you spec it up a bit and choose a manufacturer you trust?

Interestingly TPE didn't do that last time - the 185s are not a cheap design at all - 170s would have been the cheap option.

The 185s was a cheap design for Siemens so was designed Nd built to a price. I remember the staff at Wildenrath making a point of showing us their proper stock and especially the basic class how superior it was to our 1st class.

Bornin1980s · 16 Jun 2019

SP Man said:
Where is the evidence that the build work is done badly and beyond schedule. Most of the sets are built already. Most of the issues are software based and balancing between the 68 (different company) and the stock.

You keep mentioning software. Why does the industry bother with software if it's nothing but trouble. I hope it can't overrule the driver.

EE Andy b1 · 16 Jun 2019

Bornin1980s said:
You keep mentioning software. Why does the industry bother with software if it's nothing but trouble. I hope it can't overrule the driver.

Because most electrical things nowadays have electronics that need software to work and have to work with other electrical components that need software to work, and they have to be able to work with each other via a TMS (train management System) of some sort.
Or should we go back to Mk1 stock with a steam locomotive?

ATO (Automatic Train Operation) does not overrule the driver but does take over driving, while the driver monitors!!

68011 · 17 Jun 2019

Spartacus said:
These look curious from the 29/06-07/09, unadvertised TPE expresses with stock off Longsight, looking very much like Nova3 York-Scarborough summer holiday reliefs.

View attachment 64470

The info was posted back on the 5th June post #3489
not much chance of these running from 29th June as info posted elsewhere states that the training for the Driver instructors who in turn will train the drivers is currently suspended.
I'm doubtful they will carry passengers either, my initial thought was that they are training paths for Scarborough / York crews.

68011 · 17 Jun 2019

sjpowermac said:
Crewe
Does anyone know the loco working off Crewe? I think it’s 68029 ‘Courageous’

Workings between Crewe and Wavertree Junction this week have been:

Crewe

Monday 10.06.2019
0F22/0K23 0F26/0K27

Tuesday 11.06.2019
0F22/0K23 0F26/0K27

Wednesday 12.06.2019
0F22/0K23 0F26/0K27

Thursday 13.06.2019
0F22/0K23 0F26/0K27

Friday 14.06.2019
0F26/0K27

Headcodes below.
View attachment 64441

68029 was viewed on those runs Thursday

BeHereNow · 17 Jun 2019

It seems TransPennine's Twitter account did promise these trains in 2017....

“Will be available when we get our spanking new trains increasing capacity and a smoother ride starting from Dec 2017. ^DZ”
https://twitter.com/TPEassist/status/821987312166993920

“when are these bigger trains coming into action then? Manchester to Sheffield always packed”
“Dec 2017 and into 2018 ^DZ”
https://twitter.com/TPEassist/status/815891109901701120

"When will we see them in operation?" "First lot Dec 2017."
https://twitter.com/TPEassist/status/787305301636685824

Northhighland · 17 Jun 2019

SP Man said:
Where is the evidence that the build work is done badly and beyond schedule. Most of the sets are built already. Most of the issues are software based and balancing between the 68 (different company) and the stock. It would also need to be asked what was the original design spec by the client, if that was wrong then CAF only built to what was asked. Lots of different issues and definitely all sitting with the manufacturer. I remember when the 185s where built, they where built to a cheap spec and the Siemen (German) staff I worked with was amazed that we thought them good and made a point of showing us their other trains for other countries where the basic class was far superior to other 1st class.this is a bit like CAF, the British have specified a very old fashioned braking system (twin pipe with overcharge facility) where they are used to modern electronic braking and have to make the old design fit modern safety levels and old gr

Surely lessons need to be learned here. Is this a case of British railway system being slow to adapt to change, referring to your example of the braking system, also the software issues is your feeling these are unavoidable or is it a lack of understanding over what the specification for software should be?

sjpowermac · 17 Jun 2019

68011 said:
68029 was viewed on those runs Thursday

Thank you, greatly appreciated

gimmea50anyday · 17 Jun 2019

sjpowermac · 17 Jun 2019

gimmea50anyday said:
View attachment 64562

I think you’ve put this in the wrong section, maybe it fits better with ‘Speculative Ideas’

It’s certainly a superb work of fiction

I notice the ‘Class 68 loco modification programme’ is down as starting in both ‘Spring 2017’ and ‘Summer 2017’.

Also, it looks like the graphic designer just miss-typed all the dates by a year

On a more serious point, it does sound a complete nightmare interfacing the air brake system with the computer on the loco. Best wishes to the engineers sorting that one.

Jozhua · 17 Jun 2019

gimmea50anyday said:
View attachment 64562

Oh wow that's quite a delay lol... Mk5A's still on track for passenger service next month?

yorkie · 17 Jun 2019

Just a reminder can we please include a text quote or description/summary for any external content or images please?

Not everyone is able to access sites such as Twitter and not everyone is able to view images (blind people cannot see images but can have text read out with text to speech software).

Many thanks for your understanding

_toommm_ · 17 Jun 2019

Finishing work early and MK5a at Heald Green? Bonus!

68031 is doing the rounds today, seen here at Heald Green on a run from Bletchley to Manchester International Depot. Nice to see mileage accumulation is still happening:

68031 doing the rounds from Manchester to Carlisle to Bletchley to Manchester, seen here passing Heald Green with a MK5a set by Tom Cox, on Flickr

dilbertphil · 17 Jun 2019

Jozhua said:
Oh wow that's quite a delay lol... Mk5A's still on track for passenger service next month?

In a word No.

sjpowermac · 17 Jun 2019

_toommm_ said:
Finishing work early and MK5a at Heald Green? Bonus!

68031 is doing the rounds today, seen here at Heald Green on a run from Bletchley to Manchester International Depot. Nice to see mileage accumulation is still happening:

(Photos to come when I get access to my Mac)

Now that’s a great after work bonus

Did you notice if the set was TP04? It seems likely since that’s the one 68031 was on last week. That set is certainly putting in the miles.

I look forward to seeing the pictures

I got 68032 ‘Destroyer’ today on 0B64 12:00 York to Scarborough.

SP Man · 17 Jun 2019

sjpowermac said:
Now that’s a great after work bonus

Did you notice if the set was TP04? It seems likely since that’s the one 68031 was on last week. That set is certainly putting in the miles.

I look forward to seeing the pictures

I got 68032 ‘Destroyer’ today on 0B64 12:00 York to Scarborough.
View attachment 64582

Yes set 4, out again tomorrow on long run.

_toommm_ · 17 Jun 2019

sjpowermac said:
Now that’s a great after work bonus

Did you notice if the set was TP04? It seems likely since that’s the one 68031 was on last week. That set is certainly putting in the miles.

I look forward to seeing the pictures

I got 68032 ‘Destroyer’ today on 0B64 12:00 York to Scarborough.
View attachment 64582

If I'm honest, I'm not sure how to work out set numbers yet for the MK5a's. Even though it got a red signal at Heald Green South Jn., it was barrelling along by the time it got to Heald Green.

sjpowermac · 17 Jun 2019

SP Man said:
Yes set 4, out again tomorrow on long run.

Thanks, appreciated

sjpowermac · 17 Jun 2019

_toommm_ said:
If I'm honest, I'm not sure how to work out set numbers yet for the MK5a's. Even though it got a red signal at Heald Green South Jn., it was barrelling along by the time it got to Heald Green.

I had to look carefully when I saw them stood in the platform at York

CdBrux · 18 Jun 2019

SP Man said:
.this is a bit like CAF, the British have specified a very old fashioned braking system (twin pipe with overcharge facility) where they are used to modern electronic braking and have to make the old design fit modern safety levels and old gr

Why has this been specified this way?

158820 · 18 Jun 2019

Has instructor or driver training re started yet?

dilbertphil · 18 Jun 2019

158820 said:
Has instructor or driver training re started yet?

No, dates are being reorganised but it's all dependent upon the current issues being resolved.

158820 · 18 Jun 2019

dilbertphil said:
No, dates are being reorganised but it's all dependent upon the current issues being resolved.

Thanks.
just checking back 15 Apr 1st set accepted by TPE. Training suspended on 22nd of May and nothing resolved yet. It is very dissappointing. I hope TPE have enough drivers to cover training and summer holidays.

Erniescooper · 18 Jun 2019

Any issues with the coaches were sorted weeks ago but the delay meant the instructors rosters required changing which required 6 weeks notice so they will be sat there for another 2 weeks

sjpowermac · 18 Jun 2019

Erniescooper said:
Any issues with the coaches were sorted weeks ago but the delay meant the instructors rosters required changing which required 6 weeks notice so they will be sat there for another 2 weeks

Fantastic news to hear that the coaches are sorted, many thanks indeed for that

EE Andy b1 · 18 Jun 2019

sjpowermac said:
Fantastic news to hear that the coaches are sorted, many thanks indeed for that

There is only one thing that will appease me and that is these Mk5a sets actually carrying passenger in revenue earning service over the pennines.

Thanks to all the staff trying to get us there, but (stating the obvious) there well late and still no firm date for starting and whose to say after standing round for so long that other problems don't occur.

Ben Bow · 18 Jun 2019

Erniescooper said:
Any issues with the coaches were sorted weeks ago but the delay meant the instructors rosters required changing which required 6 weeks notice so they will be sat there for another 2 weeks

I spoke with one of the Piccadilly instructors a few days ago who was due to undergo mk.5a training, their most recent course date advised had been 24 June, but that had been cancelled with no further date offered.

sjpowermac · 19 Jun 2019

Yesterday there was a 19:20 MID-Crewe CS, down as a VSTP.

The 15:27 Bletchley-MID arrived MID at 19:02. I make it that TP04 has over 4000 miles now, assuming the runs in the past 14 days have been FFR.

Putting ‘two and two together’ and making 68, does that mean we have a set with 4000 miles FFR with the latest software/braking mods now handed over to TPE?

sjpowermac · 19 Jun 2019

Ben Bow said:
I spoke with one of the Piccadilly instructors a few days ago who was due to undergo mk.5a training, their most recent course date advised had been 24 June, but that had been cancelled with no further date offered.

I wonder if the ‘no further date offered’ was down to TPE wanting to see all the latest software/brake mods settled down and with a substantial mileage FFR in the bag? I wonder too if they put the bar back to 4000 miles? That would certainly fit with the extensive running of 68031/TP04 over the past 14 days.

Is the 6 weeks a union rule, a matter of courtesy to staff, or working around other diagramming needs? Provided it’s not a union rule (and of course nothing wrong if it is!) then perhaps the instructor training might start a bit sooner than six weeks?

TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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