Caledonian Sleeper

Bletchleyite · 15 Jun 2019

mralexn said:
Hope this one helps, although as it is on twitter it should be taken with a pinch of salt.

A big pinch, sounds like front line staff at Waverley who retreated into the "that's not our TOC" moan that tends to be common in such circles. It's particularly common on any TOC that is or was operated by anything connected with Virgin, as the profile of that company seems to promote a very particular level of arrogance in certain staff (see the Euston barrier staff for another example).

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Bletchleyite · 15 Jun 2019

bobbyrail said:
I am getting very confused with this now, RTT shows it going via the east coast calling at Edinburgh with a half hour wait then onto Glasgow!!!!

I think in those cases the whole train goes to Glasgow via Edinburgh, but with half of it missing (and it fully booked?) the effect is a cancellation so it's easier to call it that than say "we're running the train but we've decided we aren't going to carry you on it", which airlines have to do if an aircraft change results in fewer seats, and it mightily hacks people off.

Bletchleyite · 15 Jun 2019

jagardner1984 said:
I would also question in days of Faster Payments, mobile payments allowing thousands to transfer instantly, whether card payments taking days to clear in either direction will remain the norm. It’s almost as bad as cheques !

I do agree this is bizarre (really, debits and credits should be instant - banks such as Monzo simulate it by treating the authorisation as a debit, but it's not perfect and can cause issues) but CS are bound to it by the merchant agreements and are not, for reasons of fraud avoidance, allowed to give a refund by another means.

(Compensation, yes, hence Delay Repay, but not a refund)

Mag_seven · 15 Jun 2019

bobbyrail said:
I am getting very confused with this now, RTT shows it going via the east coast calling at Edinburgh with a half hour wait then onto Glasgow!!!!

Its a scheduled diversion via the ECML with normally two portions one for Glasgow and one for Edinburgh, except that tomorrow night there will only be a Glasgow portion!

adrock1976 · 15 Jun 2019

This is more of a Fares Advice question I have here.

I have attempted to book a seat from Falkirk Grahamston to Crewe on Thursday 11 July.

When it goes to the second step (the page before payment), it churns out a reservation for Coach H Row 08, Seat B. I cannot find the seat selector so as to give me an idea of whether it is a double or single seat, or whereabouts it is in the coach. I do recall there being a selector at one point previously in the days before the new stock.

Does anybody have an image of the seating layout with the numbers? I have tried searching but cannot find anything.

Steve Harris · 15 Jun 2019

jagardner1984 said:
I don’t really understand why ticket “acceptance” is a thing. Surely a CS customer should simply arrive at the Waverley ticket office with the CS ticket, declare the CS service was cancelled (a brief fact check done by staff if needed) and be issued with an LNER ticket, seat reservation and profuse apologies (and a warning about crowded service / offers of an instant cash refund / offers of a later less crowded service).

To put this very bluntly a CS customer is not automatically a LNER customer !

jagardner1984 said:
The emphasis in times of delay is totally wrong. “Here’s our delay repay form” - no actually, you’ve messed up my night (/not got me there at all), the vast majority of customers book directly with them. You should have the refund issued before people get off the train automatically in severe disruption, or within a couple of hours if it’s marginal. Delay Repay should be only for those with complex booking arrangements.

LNER should do right by the customer stood in front of them, and CS should do right by LNER having sorted out their mess (again).

Again, a CS customer is not a LNER customer.

Unfortunately you are thinking that a Railway passenger is a Railway passenger.

One would think you should be right in thinking that. However, the days of BR are long gone and we don't have passengers anymore, they are now customers.

Therefore, as a customer, if I tried taking the chicken I brought from Waitrose (for instance) which was "off" and tried getting it replaced by Sainsburys (other supermarkets are available), I would be told where to go !!

Unfortunately this is how the franchising module has turned our railway into not looking after the Railway pasenger.

We are now Customers !

I know thats not right, but it is what it is. Blame it on the privatisation of BR and how it is managed by the DFT.

alistairlees · 15 Jun 2019

adrock1976 said:
This is more of a Fares Advice question I have here.

I have attempted to book a seat from Falkirk Grahamston to Crewe on Thursday 11 July.

When it goes to the second step (the page before payment), it churns out a reservation for Coach H Row 08, Seat B. I cannot find the seat selector so as to give me an idea of whether it is a double or single seat, or whereabouts it is in the coach. I do recall there being a selector at one point previously in the days before the new stock.

Does anybody have an image of the seating layout with the numbers? I have tried searching but cannot find anything.

There’s a link to select seat on the basket on the right.

Essexman · 15 Jun 2019

Edinburgh cancelled northbound Sunday & Southbound Monday.
Glasgow cancelled northbound Tuesday & Wednesday Monday.

I'm booked to Glasgow following week and wondering if I should make alternative arrangements.
It would be helpful if CS could give some indication on how this is likely to go on for. They must have some idea.

Edited - I've just seen another tweet saying they 'are looking to have all services back to full capacity in the next week'.

Bletchleyite · 15 Jun 2019

Steve Harris said:
I know thats not right, but it is what it is.

No, it's not factually correct, is it?

The NRCoT requires any TOC that can reasonably assist with a stranded passenger to do so. The problem here is that CS are providing a replacement bus, therefore its passengers are not stranded.

Steve Harris · 15 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
No, it's not factually correct, is it?

The NRCoT requires any TOC that can reasonably assist with a stranded passenger to do so. The problem here is that CS are providing a replacement bus, therefore its passengers are not stranded.

Did the post say the passenger was stranded ?

No.

So factually correct? Yes. I have seen what i have posted in Real Life at my local station. GTR would not refund a ticket which was purchased elsewhere. Even though the person was going to buy a ticket from GTR with the refunded money. But was told no.

I personally don't care what NRCoT says, as not every TOC employee knows it's contents by heart and will side with me when they should. (You only need to read threads on here to know that is correct).

I much prefer learning from Real Life situations, as I have found, sometimes theoretical doesn't equal practical.

adrock1976 · 15 Jun 2019

alistairlees said:
There’s a link to select seat on the basket on the right.

Many thanks.

It seems my internet connection was ropey, but have managed to book the journey with no problems.

Bletchleyite · 15 Jun 2019

Steve Harris said:
Yes. I have seen what i have posted in Real Life at my local station. GTR would not refund a ticket which was purchased elsewhere. Even though the person was going to buy a ticket from GTR with the refunded money. But was told no.

Refunds can only be done by the original retailer because of how the accounting works. I think that was still true in BR days. It has little to do with the TOCs being different companies; if I buy a ticket from Trainline for travel on LNER, LNER can't refund it even though they might be getting all the revenue bar the commission.

Your point was oversimplified and factually incorrect as it missed the important point I made. That point didn't apply to this specific situation (because of the provision of a replacement bus) but you made a general point which (wilfully it seems) missed a very important element.

I personally don't care what NRCoT says

I do, because it is the basis of the contract and the passenger's rights, and can be enforced legally if necessary, though it very rarely comes to that. Travel according to the NRCoT is what you are purchasing when you purchase a ticket. Neither party has any right to fail to abide by their side of it. Just like when you purchase an insurance policy you are purchasing the rights and responsibilities in the insurance policy document.

Steve Harris · 15 Jun 2019

Yes my point was simplied. So other forum members could understand, as unfortunately not every forum member has a PHD or similar.

The point was not factually incorrect, as it was referring to what was posted. You added the part about being stranded.

I shall not say anymore on the matter as we are going wildly off topic and no doubt you will just keep pulling the context of my posts apart if I do.

Steve Harris · 15 Jun 2019

Does anybody know if the sleeper coaches at Longsight are being turned over the weekend, or are they starting on Monday?

Mathew S · 15 Jun 2019

Steve Harris said:
Did the post say the passenger was stranded ?

No.

So factually correct? Yes. I have seen what i have posted in Real Life at my local station. GTR would not refund a ticket which was purchased elsewhere. Even though the person was going to buy a ticket from GTR with the refunded money. But was told no.

I personally don't care what NRCoT says, as not every TOC employee knows it's contents by heart and will side with me when they should. (You only need to read threads on here to know that is correct).

I much prefer learning from Real Life situations, as I have found, sometimes theoretical doesn't equal practical.

I must say I find that a very peculiar attitude. I'm sure you would be happy to rely on your entitlement to alternative transport if your train was cancelled, an entitlement you only have because it was specified in the NRCOT.
Particularly in the case of something like Caledonian Sleeper where you're parting with a huge sum of money and it's likely to be a key part of your travel plans, it seems foolish to me to 'not care' about the conditions of the contract you are entering into.

Steve Harris · 15 Jun 2019

Mathew S said:
I must say I find that a very peculiar attitude. I'm sure you would be happy to rely on your entitlement to alternative transport if your train was cancelled, an entitlement you only have because it was specified in the NRCOT.
Particularly in the case of something like Caledonian Sleeper where you're parting with a huge sum of money and it's likely to be a key part of your travel plans, it seems foolish to me to 'not care' about the conditions of the contract you are entering into.

The point I was trying to make was that I shouldn't need to carry a copy of NRCoT around with me as TOC staff should be doing what NRCoT says anyway.

_toommm_ · 15 Jun 2019

Steve Harris said:
Does anybody know if the sleeper coaches at Longsight are being turned over the weekend, or are they starting on Monday?

They've moved through overnight, so I'm guessing it's being done. The shunter was attached to it this morning.

Steve Harris · 15 Jun 2019

_toommm_ said:
They've moved through overnight, so I'm guessing it's being done. The shunter was attached to it this morning.

Cheers. Hopefully they will be back in service soon.

jagardner1984 · 15 Jun 2019

Steve Harris said:
I know thats not right, but it is what it is. Blame it on the privatisation of BR and how it is managed by the DFT.

Totally agree with you on that. I just don’t think Joe Public has an appreciation (either through ignorance or because they believe it should be simpler) of the myriad of arrangements behind the scenes in rail land. They have a railway ticket and are standing in a railway ticket office. ... My point is given there is a major political party championing renationalisation on the basis of such situations, privatised rail would do well not to provide the newspapers with story after story along the lines of “Run a railway, this lot couldn’t run a bath”.

It would appear even CS don’t believe an overnight bus is an acceptable alternative given they are offering a full refund and travel on it, and obviously because CS operates overnight there are extremes of scheduling which make ticket acceptance elsewhere challenging, but I think the point still stands the passenger really doesn’t care who has messed up, they just want assistance in resolving it.

One doesn’t have to lose many Caledonian Double / Club customers who get off the bus saying “never again” before those £60-100 single tickets (do rail operators pay full retail rate fares to each other?) bought for customers on VIrgin or LNER look quite sensible economics. Surely the contracts Serco have with GBRF and CAF give them some right of recourse for such costs anyway. Customer Goodwill extremely hard to gain and very easy to lose.

woodhouse122 · 15 Jun 2019

i Bet CS are hoping these Lowlander sleepers are sorted out before the Edinbrugh Festival starts

Caleb2010 · 15 Jun 2019

On occasion the Cornish sleeper has been replaced by an HST set!

Granted that CS doesn't have spare stock available like gwr did but, surely a rake of decent stock could be hired in - buffet/restaurant as well - to operate the missing mk5 diagram. Ok, there would be no beds but, there aren't any on a coach on the M6 either. At least they would supply a train, with appropriate staffing and service.

When Serco took over, to begin with they would move heaven and earth to operate a train - diversions, hiring in stock, short notice infrastructure problems - all met with enthusiasm and determination.

Without putting the serious nature of the problems with the wheelflats down, they don't appear to be as determined to go that extra mile to ensure goodwill from the travelling public like they did a mere 4 years ago.

70014IronDuke · 15 Jun 2019

woodhouse122 said:
i Bet CS are hoping these Lowlander sleepers are sorted out before the Edinbrugh Festival starts

Why use the passive voice? CS directors are in charge, aren't they? CS is responsible, one way or another, for the vast amount of delays and cancellations. CS opted for the horribly expensive 'hotel on wheels' service that on here reads all too often as "Hell on Wheels" - or on no wheels if you are still waiting to board at 23.59 at Euston.

cl19 · 16 Jun 2019

Looks like the mk5s were being processed through the wheel lathe at longsight as I went past en route to the airport this morning

matacaster · 16 Jun 2019

Caleb2010 said:
On occasion the Cornish sleeper has been replaced by an HST set!

When Serco took over, to begin with they would move heaven and earth to operate a train - diversions, hiring in stock, short notice infrastructure problems - all met with enthusiasm and determination.

When a contractor's bid for a fixed price wins, regardless of the industry, they believe that they have hit the jackpot. They have all the projected figures, including contingency and profit. They want to make a good impression from a marketing perspective and do not have any ACTUAL costs. So they spunk a bit of dosh liberally around in first year (or possibly two). Then the accountants look at the ACTUAL figures and are usually horrified, unexpected things have cost a lot of money and there's little if any contingency left. A further problem is that there's possibly littkle time left on the franchise to generate new income or turn things round - anything you spend in last days of franchise is lost unless you get the renewal. That's why service and maintenance get paired down towards the end of a franchise.

Bassman · 16 Jun 2019

Mk5 coaches appeared to be stored at Inverness over Saturday with class 73/9. Are they being used for this evening's service?

jagardner1984 · 16 Jun 2019

Now a prominent BBC News homepage story:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48654054

No such thing as bad publicity eh ?!

Steve Harris · 16 Jun 2019

Bassman said:
Mk5 coaches appeared to be stored at Inverness over Saturday with class 73/9. Are they being used for this evening's service?

One would think that staff familiarisation and/or training will need to be carried out before entering service. So possibly not.

Mainliner · 16 Jun 2019

jagardner1984 said:
Now a prominent BBC News homepage story:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48654054

No such thing as bad publicity eh ?!

Hotels on flat wheels?

TimboM · 16 Jun 2019

Bassman said:
Mk5 coaches appeared to be stored at Inverness over Saturday with class 73/9. Are they being used for this evening's service?

A unit of 8 coaches has been based at Inverness this last week for testing/training. Mk3s/Mk2s this evening and for the time being.

When the Mk5s do launch on the Highlander the current plan is to introduce them northbound one night then southbound the next, as far easier to swap the sets over in one go at Wembley than when it’s split across Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William.

greyman42 · 16 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The NRCoT requires any TOC that can reasonably assist with a stranded passenger to do so. The problem here is that CS are providing a replacement bus, therefore its passengers are not stranded.

Does anyone know what quality the replacement coach is? For example; does it have toilets and refreshments?

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