• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
5,634
Location
Croydon
Did Highlandspring say anything about square wheels...?


They're still being tested/commissioned and not ready for public/passenger service, so there are not "plenty spare". There's quite evidently few/none spare at this stage.
If the other ones were all tested/commissioned and ready to go, they wouldn't have postponed the Highlander launch...!

Fair enought but I believe the full Highland service requires 34 (or 36 ?) Mk5s. If there are not 8 or 9 of those already modified then I have to wonder if they will all be modified in time for the 7th July introduction of the Highland sleeper ?.

There is one extra problem that does not affect the Lowland sleeper. The Highland sleeper, if I understand it correctly, undergoes a more complex splitting/joining. This is because the 16 coaches from Euston end up as three trains formed as 8, 5 and 5 coaches - note that 2 coaches get added to the mix whilst splitting at Edinburgh. Its been suggested that the computer(s) are not coping well with this re-forming. Or is that untrue ?.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Fair enought but I believe the full Highland service requires 34 (or 36 ?) Mk5s. If there are not 8 or 9 of those already modified then I have to wonder if they will all be modified in time for the 7th July introduction of the Highland sleeper ?
It needs 34 - 2x 16 + 2x Fort William day coaches.
It's not really a case of modifications as such - the stock all needs finishing, fault finding and resolving, testing, mileage accumulation etc.
There's an 8-coach unit in Inverness currently which as noted above was having its own spot of bother over the past day or two. That is presumably the next nearest to being ready (that unit was used on the full WCML test runs a few months back too).

You do have to wonder, yes....!

There is one extra problem that does not affect the Lowland sleeper. The Highland sleeper, if I understand it correctly, undergoes a more complex splitting/joining. This is because the 16 coaches from Euston end up as three trains formed as 8, 5 and 5 coaches - note that 2 coaches get added to the mix whilst splitting at Edinburgh. Its been suggested that the computer(s) are not coping well with this re-forming. Or is that untrue ?.
The TCMS ("computer") has had some challenges with the Carstairs split/reverse, yes - although these do seem to have been less and less frequent recently.
The split isn't necessarily 8 / 5 / 5. Inverness is 8, Fort William can then be either 4, 5 or 6 and conversely Aberdeen is either 6, 5 or 4 depending on seasonal demand. So a fair bit for the TCMS to get its head around!
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
There is a set of these MK5 sleepers in the sidings (or were) of Locomotive Services (Crewe TMD) at Crewe, funny enough, are these the last new deliveries or a problem set or for training, does anybody know?
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
5,844
Location
Yorkshire
There is a set of these MK5 sleepers in the sidings (or were) of Locomotive Services (Crewe TMD) at Crewe, funny enough, are these the last new deliveries or a problem set or for training, does anybody know?

I believe they went to Crewe for the wheel lathe, after the incident at Stafford a few evenings ago....
 

Spirit555

Member
Joined
8 Oct 2017
Messages
821
There is a set of these MK5 sleepers in the sidings (or were) of Locomotive Services (Crewe TMD) at Crewe, funny enough, are these the last new deliveries or a problem set or for training, does anybody know?

This is the majority of the rake that was at Crewe on 13/06

92 043 at the head of 15330, 15331, 15333, 15314, 15205, 15007, 15309. Two other coaches, unidentified remained behind at the depot.
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
5,844
Location
Yorkshire
The MK5a coaches are now at Longsight Wheel Lathe (left hand side coming into Piccadilly, right hand side leaving Piccadilly)
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
Thanks all, i didn't realise they were the failed set from Stafford.

I had a little look inside some of these at Euston one night last week and they do look quite smart and a lot better than the old MK2/MK3s, apart from some of the floor coverings that already looked very grubby.

I'm sure once the teething troubles with the MK5s and the problems Caledonian staff are encountering are all sorted these will be a nice place to be for the next 20 years or so.
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
The MK5a coaches are now at Longsight Wheel Lathe (left hand side coming into Piccadilly, right hand side leaving Piccadilly)

Yes we know the wheel lathe at Longsight.

Nice to see after all these years that the old Longsight excursion platform has been refurbished and painted yellow. Obviously going to get a lot more use not just for TfW DVT sets, MK3 for now and MK4 for future but obviously for CAF/TPE MK5a sets as walking access is needed for the Locomotives.
 

sjpowermac

Established Member
Joined
26 May 2018
Messages
1,989
Severe disruption to Caledonian Sleeper Services:
https://www.sleeper.scot/service-alterations/

14.06.2019
Edinburgh to London Euston Caped

16.06.2019
London Euston to Edinburgh Caped

‘Unfortunately, this service has been cancelled as the result of wheel damage sustained on the train during Tuesday night’s service.’

Alternative arrangements are to travel on LNER, or CS are providing overnight road coaches.
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,435
I think we should start a competition, how many times can the same information be posted to one thread?
 

Steven_G

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2018
Messages
140
Can someone explain to me how the "square wheel" issue came about?

Fundamental issue or just teething issues?

Also, the fix for this could take some time if there are many needing replaced and any mechanical fault rectified.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Yes we know the wheel lathe at Longsight.

Nice to see after all these years that the old Longsight excursion platform has been refurbished and painted yellow. Obviously going to get a lot more use not just for TfW DVT sets, MK3 for now and MK4 for future but obviously for CAF/TPE MK5a sets as walking access is needed for the Locomotives.

Next, put in some access from the road and a TVM and reopen the thing :D

(I know it's in the wrong place to do that)
 

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
5,634
Location
Croydon
It needs 34 - 2x 16 + 2x Fort William day coaches.
It's not really a case of modifications as such - the stock all needs finishing, fault finding and resolving, testing, mileage accumulation etc.
There's an 8-coach unit in Inverness currently which as noted above was having its own spot of bother over the past day or two. That is presumably the next nearest to being ready (that unit was used on the full WCML test runs a few months back too).

You do have to wonder, yes....!


The TCMS ("computer") has had some challenges with the Carstairs split/reverse, yes - although these do seem to have been less and less frequent recently.
The split isn't necessarily 8 / 5 / 5. Inverness is 8, Fort William can then be either 4, 5 or 6 and conversely Aberdeen is either 6, 5 or 4 depending on seasonal demand. So a fair bit for the TCMS to get its head around!

Thanks for the info. I had wondered whether the two extra DAY/lounge coaches added in Scotland to complete the the Fort William or Aberdeen portion were needed late enough to allow the ones of the Southbound to be used. So its only two coaches needed. I also did not realise that the 6 sleeping coaches, in the 8-car half set, are not necessarily shared 3 and 3 but could be 4:2, 3:3 or 2:4. I suppose the day/lounge coaches could get swapped in/out of Polmadie ?. I also presume that the 8 car portion from Euston that splits for Fort William and Aberdeen contains an extra 152xx and one less 153xx compared to all the other 8-car sets ?.

This is the majority of the rake that was at Crewe on 13/06

92 043 at the head of 15330, 15331, 15333, 15314, 15205, 15007, 15309. Two other coaches, unidentified remained behind at the depot.

I have amended my earlier post, originally at 00:26 on Friday 14/06/2019, to add the coaches that survived to form the Thursday night to Glasgow only.

Can someone explain to me how the "square wheel" issue came about?

Fundamental issue or just teething issues?

Also, the fix for this could take some time if there are many needing replaced and any mechanical fault rectified.

I was lead to believe that the computer slammed the brakes on for no reason at a speed exceeding 70mph. This caused the wheel flats and the affected coaches were to go to Longsight (presumably the wheel lathe). Posts above indicate the wheel flats is true. On the face of it there will be two issues. One - how bad are the wheel flats and Two - how do they stop it happening again.
 
Last edited:

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
5,634
Location
Croydon
Well I didn't...

Places like Longsight, that have a wheel lathe, are good places to see unexpected stock from far and wide. That is because they need a wheelset or two (etc) turning and not all depots have that facility. The leaf fall season brings the best chance of variety ;).
 

Highlandspring

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2017
Messages
2,778
I was lead to believe that the computer slammed the brakes on for no reason at a speed exceeding 70mph.
On the contrary, the TCMS had a very good reason for applying the brakes. The basic issue behind it is known and there's a way of mitigating against it occurring again.
 

Spirit555

Member
Joined
8 Oct 2017
Messages
821
Thanks for the info. I had wondered whether the two extra DAY/lounge coaches added in Scotland to complete the the Fort William or Aberdeen portion were needed late enough to allow the ones of the Southbound to be used. So its only two coaches needed. I also did not realise that the 6 sleeping coaches, in the 8-car half set, are not necessarily shared 3 and 3 but could be 4:2, 3:3 or 2:4. I suppose the day/lounge coaches could get swapped in/out of Polmadie ?. I also presume that the 8 car portion from Euston that splits for Fort William and Aberdeen contains an extra 152xx and one less 153xx compared to all the other 8-car sets ?.



I have amended my earlier post, originally at 00:26 on Friday 14/06/2019, to add the coaches that survived to form the Thursday night to Glasgow only.



I was lead to believe that the computer slammed the brakes on for no reason at a speed exceeding 70mph. This caused the wheel flats and the affected coaches were to go to Longsight (presumably the wheel lathe). Posts above indicate the wheel flats is true. On the face of it there will be two issues. One - how bad are the wheel flats and Two - how do they stop it happening again.

I have been told that the wheel flats are quite severe.

Mark
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,435
On the contrary, the TCMS had a very good reason for applying the brakes. The basic issue behind it is known and there's a way of mitigating against it occurring again.

Dodgy connection on the 68 way jumper thingy? TCMS thinks the train has split so slams the brakes on?
 

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
5,634
Location
Croydon
Dodgy connection on the 68 way jumper thingy? TCMS thinks the train has split so slams the brakes on?
Ahhh. Perhaps that explains why some of the coaches had more serious wheelflats. Following the break in communication would the TCMS decide to stop the rear part harder than the front (so more flats in rear half) ?.

The devil in me suggests that the TCMS could not communicate the panic brake request to one half of the train :wub:. I suppose its likely there is no central "brain" and so each coach decides for itself but that spoils the theory <D.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top