Morecambe to Carlisle

tsman · 15 Jun 2019

Hi

Following a Delay Repay claim, I have a Complimentary Return Ticket from Northern rail valid on their network.

I am looking to do a trip on 10 and 11 July starting in Morecambe, going to Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast Line, staying overnight in Carlisle before heading to Leeds via the Settle-Carlisle railway. I may break my journey throughout course of both days.

I am proposing to do the trip by using the complimentary ticket as a return from Morecambe to Carlisle, but break the journey on the return leg at Hellifield, and buy a ticket from Hellifield to Leeds. Am I right to think this would be valid?

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ForTheLoveOf · 15 Jun 2019

tsman said:
Hi

Following a Delay Repay claim, I have a Complimentary Return Ticket from Northern rail valid on their network.

I am looking to do a trip on 10 and 11 July starting in Morecambe, going to Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast Line, staying overnight in Carlisle before heading to Leeds via the Settle-Carlisle railway. I may break my journey throughout course of both days.

I am proposing to do the trip by using the complimentary ticket as a return from Morecambe to Carlisle, but break the journey on the return leg at Hellifield, and buy a ticket from Hellifield to Leeds. Am I right to think this would be valid?

There are no defined rules as to what routes you can take with a Northern complimentary return ticket, and it's clear that the ordinary system of permitted routes is totally unworkable for many journeys given the Northern only restriction. In practice, I think it's clear that those routes which are likely to be accepted will be those which are considered "reasonable" by the guard, just the same as with ordinary point to point tickets. I think Morecambe to Leeds via Carlisle is probably stretching that quite a bit, considering the direct Northern service from Morecambe to Leeds via Bentham (even if it's not particularly frequent, but then again neither is the S&C or Cumbrian Coast!).

I think the best thing to do, in all honesty, is to leave your destination blank, and ask the guard what you should enter for your destination given the route you want to take, before you leave Morecambe.

30907 · 15 Jun 2019

Your suggestion seems reasonable off-hand, and AIUI Northern on-train staff are unlikely to query such a use of the ticket (but Morecambe to Leeds via Whitehaven might be regarded as taking the Michael...

)

However, are you intending to use the ticket to get back to Morecambe as well?
If not, then Leeds-Whitehaven (and similar) return is valid outward via Barrow and return via Carlisle, and you'd only need to pay Morecambe-Lancaster single.
(This assumes that the return half of the ticket is valid for overnight break of journey - I don't have access to the T&Cs, so please check!)

Edit: ForTheLoveOf makes the same point, but I don't think you were suggesting putting Leeds as your destination?

sheff1 · 15 Jun 2019

tsman said:
I am proposing to do the trip by using the complimentary ticket as a return from Morecambe to Carlisle, but break the journey on the return leg at Hellifield, and buy a ticket from Hellifield to Leeds. Am I right to think this would be valid?

A normal 'Any permitted' Morecambe to Carlisle ticket is valid via the Cumbrian Coast or via Appleby & Hellifield so, yes, a 'Northern only' complimentary ticket is going to be valid to do what you propose.

SN1 19-5 · 15 Jun 2019

Is the ticket a Day Return? Or, A Return? This will make the difference. I hope!

I am not a ticket expert. I am not even an English expert.

tsman · 15 Jun 2019

SN1 19-5 said:
Is the ticket a Day Return? Or, A Return? This will make the difference. I hope!

I am not a ticket expert. I am not even an English expert.

A Return, I think, as the Travel Pass allows me to put in separate Outward and Return dates!

tsman · 15 Jun 2019

Thanks all for your guidance!

And that's right 30907 - I wasn't proposing to put Leeds as the destination

yorkie · 15 Jun 2019

The normal constraints of permitted routes don't apply here; I can (and have) made journeys like Newcastle to York via Carlisle. It's not an issue. All Northern Guards have accepted such tickets without question in my experience.

tsman · 15 Jun 2019

yorkie said:
The normal constraints of permitted routes don't apply here; I can (and have) made journeys like Newcastle to York via Carlisle. It's not an issue. All Northern Guards have accepted such tickets without question in my experience.

There wouldn't be a way from Newcastle to York on Northern services except via Carlisle, would there?

yorkie · 15 Jun 2019

tsman said:
There wouldn't be a way from Newcastle to York on Northern services except via Carlisle, would there?

Exactly; so the usual permitted route restrictions cannot possibly apply.

My view is that anything that seems reasonable that doesn't involve double-calling at your origin (or otherwise unreasonably doubling back) should, and almost certainly will, be accepted.

BlueFox · 15 Jun 2019

30907 said:
(This assumes that the return half of the ticket is valid for overnight break of journey - I don't have access to the T&Cs, so please check!)

There are two date boxes on the ticket that have to be filled in, one for the outward date, one for the return.
I've attached a photo of the back of the ticket which, has the terms and conditions.

sheff1 · 15 Jun 2019

yorkie said:
The normal constraints of permitted routes don't apply here;

In this case the proposed routeing is a permitted route anyway.

30907 · 16 Jun 2019

BlueFox said:
There are two date boxes on the ticket that have to be filled in, one for the outward date, one for the return.
I've attached a photo of the back of the ticket which, has the terms and conditions.

In which case my Leeds-Whitehaven suggestion is on shaky ground.
However, Leeds-Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast would almost certainly be accepted as yorkie suggests.

The original Hellifield suggestion is of course absolutely fine, and you could ask the on-train staff whether they will let you travel via Leeds and Hebden Bridge (and perhaps hop off at Shipley and buy a single to Leeds from the TVM on the platform to save arguments at Leeds?).

abbo1234 · 16 Jun 2019

I have done Chorley to Newcastle via the Cumbrian coast line with an overnight stay in Newcastle on a complementary return ticket.
Returning via Carlisle, Leeds and Manchester Victoria the following day.

No problems at all.

Morecambe to Carlisle

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