Safety critical eyesight.

BloominMan · 31 May 2019

Hello guys/girls.

Only a quick question.

What are the specific requirements for safety critical eyesight in relation to: Shunting/Depot driving, actual passenger train driving or any other safety critical post?

My eyesight is 20/20 - 6/6 corrected with glasses/contacts in both eyes simaltaneously.

Also 20/20 - 6/6 in each eye separately with correction. Sometimes my left eye can drift to 6/9 (one line worse than 20/20) with contacts.

But are there any requirements for uncorrected vision? As without correction I cannot see the biggest letter in either eye.

Which is leading me onto looking into laser surgery.

I have good colour vision.

Any advice thoroughly appreciated. Cheers.

RailUK Forums

FManc · 31 May 2019

Requirements include:
* distance: 6/6 using both eyes and no worse than 6/12 in the weaker eye (spectacles permitted to meet this)
* near: N8 using both eyes (spectacles permitted to meet this)
* maximum corrective lenses: hypermetropia +5, myopia -8

I had a medical back in February for a trainee driver role and I have quite poor eyesight. It mostly comes down to your prescription now. My prescription is around -5.75/-6 and I still passed.

BloominMan · 31 May 2019

Absolutely brilliant information. Thank you. So they don't test uncorrected anymore?

My eyes are really similar.

-5.75 left and -5.25 right. Astigmatism in both.

OneLowban · 31 May 2019

I was tested uncorrected. I’m -2.25/-2.50 and could hardly see the top letter.

FManc · 31 May 2019

BloominMan said:
Absolutely brilliant information. Thank you. So they don't test uncorrected anymore?

My eyes are really similar.

-5.75 left and -5.25 right. Astigmatism in both.

I don’t recall being tested uncorrected. They might still test you uncorrected but can’t fail you as far as I’m aware for it as the requirement specifies spectacles can be permitted to reach the standard.

I remember attending a medical for my first job on the railway about 8 years ago. The doctor said I’d never be able to become a train driver as back then you had to reach a certain standard uncorrected. I think the rules changed a few years ago to the current ones where it’s more prescription based.

OneLowban · 31 May 2019

Yeah they must have changed as even hardly seeing the top letter I passed, makes me wonder what the point was then.

BloominMan · 31 May 2019

OneLowban said:
I was tested uncorrected. I’m -2.25/-2.50 and could hardly see the top letter.

Yeah I've got no chance of seeing the top letter in either. With correction I'd pass hopefully!

FManc said:
I don’t recall being tested uncorrected. They might still test you uncorrected but can’t fail you as far as I’m aware for it as the requirement specifies spectacles can be permitted to reach the standard.

I remember attending a medical for my first job on the railway about 8 years ago. The doctor said I’d never be able to become a train driver as back then you had to reach a certain standard uncorrected. I think the rules changed a few years ago to the current ones where it’s more prescription based.

I did hear a whisper the uncorrected part was irrelevant as long as you passed the rest of the test whilst corrected. Hope it's true!

Congratulations on your appointment by the way.

OneLowban · 31 May 2019

With correction should be fine!

FManc · 31 May 2019

BloominMan said:
Yeah I've got no chance of seeing the top letter in either. With correction I'd pass hopefully!

I did hear a whisper the uncorrected part was irrelevant as long as you passed the rest of the

Congratulations on your appointment by the way.

Cheers mate!

Honestly it’s nothing to worry about - I was really panicking about my eyesight prior to my medical but it wasn’t an issue in the end at all. My employer had already asked me to go to the opticians so they could fill out an optical record form to state I could reach the standard. I knew I had passed in that respect before I even attended my medical.

BloominMan · 31 May 2019

Thank you for the responses!

Highlandspring · 31 May 2019

It depends on the role. Away from train driving Network Rail have several different visual acuity requirements for different medical levels as part of the Sentinel scheme. Some do require a minimum 3/60 uncorrected.

Stigy · 1 Jun 2019

Man I wish I had seen a thread this positive before I had my medical haha. I was really worried about my eyesight. I have glasses and my eyesight without them is really poor. However, I passed the medical with ease (which I wasn’t surprised about as such, but I thought there might have been some umming and ahhing going on...). There is an uncorrected standard to reach, but I’m lead to believe you have to be pretty much blind without correction to fail. I don’t understand all the numbers to do with eyesight, but there’s a standard to meet as governed by the RSSB. I was tested with and without correction (the machines they use aren’t great either, and the peripheral vision test is affected by the frames of glasses). I could read the second or third line down with a squint. That’s another thing, don’t be afraid to swing....I always thought I was ‘cheating the system’ if I squinted in order to see clearer, but nobody has ever said it’s wrong, and let’s face it, there’s a lot riding on this medical after all! (If I didn’t squint I doubt I’d read the second line on the chart properly).

I took my prescription with me just in case, and would recommend others do this just to show if needed. It wasn’t asked for, but it’s easy enough to get from the optician if you can’t find it. It’s also handy to keep your prescription current to within the 2-year guidelines so you know how your eyes are in ‘real time’ so to speak. I think my prescription was -5.75 in my weak eye and -4.75 in my better eye? Something like that anyway. I have read (I seem to recall) that for driving the limit is -/+6 in the weaker eye? This information is readily available on the RSSB website under driver medical standards.

BloominMan · 1 Jun 2019

Highlandspring said:
It depends on the role. Away from train driving Network Rail have several different visual acuity requirements for different medical levels as part of the Sentinel scheme. Some do require a minimum 3/60 uncorrected.

I don't even think I can see that uncorrected o_O

Double the size of the biggest letter is that?

BloominMan · 15 Jun 2019

Sorry to be a pain guys - What is the stance on having eyes lasered while working on the railway?

I've been asking around and it seems the rules have been relaxed. Cheers.

Stigy · 15 Jun 2019

BloominMan said:
Sorry to be a pain guys - What is the stance on having eyes lasered while working on the railway?

I've been asking around and it seems the rules have been relaxed. Cheers.

I think it varies, however the rule of thumb tends to be it has to have been over a year since the surgery. Obviously your eyes will be tested as normal. I don’t even recall a question on the laser eye surgery on any paperwork I filled out for my medical? Could be wrong though.

I believe standards to vary slightly between roles, for example a driver may have a different standard to other safety critical staff.

If in doubt, speak to HR/TOC Occy health if pos.

Edit: Just re-read That and it seems you’re on about already being on the railway? If already in a job, just speak to Occ Health. Far easier to get a definitive answer.

BloominMan · 15 Jun 2019

Stigy said:
I think it varies, however the rule of thumb tends to be it has to have been over a year since the surgery. Obviously your eyes will be tested as normal. I don’t even recall a question on the laser eye surgery on any paperwork I filled out for my medical? Could be wrong though.

I believe standards to vary slightly between roles, for example a driver may have a different standard to other safety critical staff.

If in doubt, speak to HR/TOC Occy health if pos.

Edit: Just re-read That and it seems you’re on about already being on the railway? If already in a job, just speak to Occ Health. Far easier to get a definitive answer.

Thanks for the reply Stigy.

Yes I'm on the railway at current in a non safety critical role. I've been offered various SC roles not related to traincrew. So uncorrected visual acuity I'm hoping isn't relevant.

Upon completing some research (this forum is a god send) - It seems 3/60 was the old standard. Whether or not they test it now seems to be sporadic :'(

I know I could get it done now (laser) without any repercussions (non SC role at current) but I don't want it to disable me from applying in the future.

BloominMan · 16 Jun 2019

I've just found this which may be worth a read to anybody with prospective plans to apply for a drivers job or any SC role:

https://www.aslef.org.uk/article.php?group_id=5379

The new EU legislation standard. Eyesight has been relaxed but take particular attention to the bottom.

It actually does mention there is no uncorrected standard. Just as long as you can meet the required standard with correction, or without correction (if you're lucky enough to be blessed with great eyes!)

Stigy · 16 Jun 2019

BloominMan said:
I've just found this which may be worth a read to anybody with prospective plans to apply for a drivers job or any SC role:

https://www.aslef.org.uk/article.php?group_id=5379

The new EU legislation standard. Eyesight has been relaxed but take particular attention to the bottom.

It actually does mention there is no uncorrected standard. Just as long as you can meet the required standard with correction, or without correction (if you're lucky enough to be blessed with great eyes!)

That makes for interesting reading, good find.

My unaided vision was checked, and it’s pretty poor. However, they didn’t seem too bothered by it. Maybe they are required to check the vision without correction, but don’t take this in to account anymore? Good lick with whatever you chose to do. I thought about laser eye surgery a while ago but to be honest it freaked me out a bit haha. I don’t mind wearing glasses as I have been doing so since I was about 4 (over 30-years). I’d probably consider it again if it meant my vision as it stands would bar me from applying for jobs or was affecting me in any way.

I joined the Fire Service on a Retained basis a few years ago and I was concerned about my eyesight. The optician said I met the standard, but when I went for my medical they said I didn’t meet the uncorrected standard (the Fire Service Occ Health dept. Basically have you have an eye test privately and have the forms signed). I was gutted at the time, but it wasn’t probably for the best long term. Even they have relaxed their standards though as you used to not be able to wear glasses at all to join up!

EllisM · 16 Jun 2019

Lads I’m so paranoid for my eye exam, my left eye is really weak like really weak compared to my right eye (with glasses) I need to know how Intense this exam is.

Stigy · 16 Jun 2019

EllisM said:
Lads I’m so paranoid for my eye exam, my left eye is really weak like really weak compared to my right eye (with glasses) I need to know how Intense this exam is.

I’ve had glasses all my life pretty much and my eyesight is really poor without glasses. To this day the measurements used in sight tests baffle me, however, my prescription is about +5.75 in my worst eye and +4.5 in the better eye. They didn’t ask to see my prescription when I had my driver medical so I assumed the tests they ran spoke for themselves, however, I’ve hear +\- 6 is about the limit for an prescription?

I honestly wouldn’t panic about this. I was the same as you are being but there really was no need in the end. The tests consist of the usual snellen scale and colour blindness test. I was tested with and without glasses but I’m led to believe (reading this thread alone) that uncorrected isn’t an issue these days.

If your eyes are really bad with glasses, I’d get them tested ASAP or at least have the optician print your most recent prescription off. That’s what I did, just in case.

Good luck.

ComUtoR · 16 Jun 2019

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/RIS-3451-TOM Iss 1.pdf

Everything you want should be in that document.

BloominMan · 16 Jun 2019

ComUtoR said:
https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/RIS-3451-TOM Iss 1.pdf

Everything you want should be in that document.

Cheers mate.

This is what is confusing me. That document is from December 2016. The new ASLEF ones started in 2018.

Nobody seems to know

Shaw S Hunter · 16 Jun 2019

BloominMan said:
I've just found this which may be worth a read to anybody with prospective plans to apply for a drivers job or any SC role:

https://www.aslef.org.uk/article.php?group_id=5379

The new EU legislation standard. Eyesight has been relaxed but take particular attention to the bottom.

It actually does mention there is no uncorrected standard. Just as long as you can meet the required standard with correction, or without correction (if you're lucky enough to be blessed with great eyes!)

Not quite. There is a limit on the degree of correction that is acceptable. Overall the Euro standard is telling rail operators to leave the details of opthalmic examination to the experts rather than the GP types that normally conduct railway medicals.

BloominMan · 16 Jun 2019

Shaw S Hunter said:
Not quite. There is a limit on the degree of correction that is acceptable. Overall the Euro standard is telling rail operators to leave the details of opthalmic examination to the experts rather than the GP types that normally conduct railway medicals.

Ah yes, fair comment.

Optimum22 · 27 Oct 2019

Just bumping this thread back up, I was accepted in a Guard position and recently attended my medical, I passed everything but was told my vision wasn't good enough for a safety critical role.

I had no idea this was a requirement, wasn't told this all the way through the process. My vision is -9.75 in my right eye and -9.25 in my left.

They said even if I wear my contacts and carry a spare pair of glasses this will still not be sufficient. So gutted to have made it this far only to miss out at the final hurdle!

Has a certain level of vision always been a requirement?

Amanda · 27 Oct 2019

Optimum22 said:
Just bumping this thread back up, I was accepted in a Guard position and recently attended my medical, I passed everything but was told my vision wasn't good enough for a safety critical role.

I had no idea this was a requirement, wasn't told this all the way through the process. My vision is -9.75 in my right eye and -9.25 in my left.

They said even if I wear my contacts and carry a spare pair of glasses this will still not be sufficient. So gutted to have made it this far only to miss out at the final hurdle!

Has a certain level of vision always been a requirement?

I'll confess now that I don't work in the rail industry (yet!) and I don't know what the benchmarks are for these tests, but I have wondered myself as I wear glasses which I am dependent on.

However, my sister is - 10.25 in one eye and - 9 in the other. Thanks to this she gets free eye tests and even gets vouchers towards the cost of her glasses. I was shocked to find this out as she and I have always been very similar in everything, I just figured we were genetically very similar but I'm only - 6 or so in each eye. You would never know how bad her eyes are from looking at her as she wears contact lenses.

Anyway I'm telling you this because it sounds like your prescription is not far off meeting the requirements for the level of support that my sister gets from the NHS, which must mean your eyesight is pretty poor. I wouldn't be surprised if the cut-off point is even more strict for safety-critical railway roles. I feel for you, it is gutting to be so close and have everything taken away.

OneLowban · 27 Oct 2019

Sorry to hear about your situation.

The link above says to me that the limit is -8 I think? Page 11 of the RSSB document.

Optimum22 said:
Just bumping this thread back up, I was accepted in a Guard position and recently attended my medical, I passed everything but was told my vision wasn't good enough for a safety critical role.

I had no idea this was a requirement, wasn't told this all the way through the process. My vision is -9.75 in my right eye and -9.25 in my left.

They said even if I wear my contacts and carry a spare pair of glasses this will still not be sufficient. So gutted to have made it this far only to miss out at the final hurdle!

Has a certain level of vision always been a requirement?

Rockhopper · 27 Oct 2019

Your -9.75 is well within the limits of what they can cure with laser surgery these days. £950 per eye - got to be worth thinking about. If it’s acceptable to the railways they might even defer your job offer for a few months till you’ve had it done?

Stigy · 27 Oct 2019

Rockhopper said:
Your -9.75 is well within the limits of what they can cure with laser surgery these days. £950 per eye - got to be worth thinking about. If it’s acceptable to the railways they might even defer your job offer for a few months till you’ve had it done?

Not all companies will allow Laser eye surgery. Even if they do, I very much doubt they’d offer a job pending having this carried out. Most would require the surgery to have been carried out over 12 months previous I’d imagine, as that way if there were any repercussions etc, they’d have been flagged up by this time. There are potential risks with laser eye surgery which wouldn’t necessarily be evident as soon as it’s been carried out.

jmh59 · 27 Oct 2019

Out of interest what part of the prescription do you use to derive these figures, is it 'Sph' or 'Sph' + 'Cyl'? Academic for me as at nearly 60 I'm not planning to become a driver.

Safety critical eyesight.

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