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GWR Class 800

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bastien

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I recall way back in 2012 there were regular posts from one particular member trying to convince everyone that 26m coaches couldn’t possibly fit anywhere on the network...
Aye, remember when they weren't going to fit round the last curve into Cornwall? Those were the days! Now they're complaining because they don't get 9 carriages down there!
 
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Jurassicjewel

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Travelled on the 17:00 10 car unit 800 from Bristol to Swindon yesterday and it was on diesel, no switchover to electric east of Chippenham, it barely mustered 98 mph at Wootton Bassett junction so was 4 minutes late arrival at Swindon. It also departed Swindon on diesel. I have noticed that there seems to be an increasing number of class 800's operating diesel only under the wires - has anyone else observed that there are quite a few sets on diesel only restriction over the last week or so ?.
 

Clarence Yard

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It's historically quite low at the moment - just 6 sets but every 5 car that is diesel only puts it's colleague in a 10 car set to also being DO whilst it is coupled to the defective unit. Not possible to have two units running on different primary power sources.

Today 3 x 5 car 800, 1 x 9 car 800, 1 x 5 car 802 and 1 x 9 car 802 are DO with actual faults.
 

themiller

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It's historically quite low at the moment - just 6 sets but every 5 car that is diesel only puts it's colleague in a 10 car set to also being DO whilst it is coupled to the defective unit. Not possible to have two units running on different primary power sources.

Today 3 x 5 car 800, 1 x 9 car 800, 1 x 5 car 802 and 1 x 9 car 802 are DO with actual faults.
Hitachi must be counting their blessings that the Electrification didn’t go according to plan. Just imagine the situation if these faults had been on all-electric sets.
 
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Hitachi must be counting their blessings that the Electrification didn’t go according to plan. Just imagine the situation if these faults had been on all-electric sets.
The resource, shed space and time that is spent on GU’s would be put into other areas, so if they were all electric, if wouldn’t be such an issue. The sheds weren’t designed to have so many diesel powered vehicles needing servicing.
 

bastien

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It's historically quite low at the moment - just 6 sets but every 5 car that is diesel only puts it's colleague in a 10 car set to also being DO whilst it is coupled to the defective unit. Not possible to have two units running on different primary power sources.

Today 3 x 5 car 800, 1 x 9 car 800, 1 x 5 car 802 and 1 x 9 car 802 are DO with actual faults.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I read this as implying diesel operation is the fallback position. Aren't electric trains supposed to be simpler and more reliable? I'd expect sets to be electric only more often.
 
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I read this as implying diesel operation is the fallback position. Aren't electric trains supposed to be simpler and more reliable? I'd expect sets to be electric only more often.
They can’t run electric only, not enough wires......

There is still the issue that if a set suffers an ADD or similar fault and ends at anywhere other than North Pole or Stoke Gifford, it can’t be repaired and tested. Whilst sets with diesel only restrictions aren’t ideal, they still come out and make the service.

*ADD - Automatic Dropping Device, drops the pan in certain circumstances.
 

bastien

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They can’t run electric only, not enough wires......

There is still the issue that if a set suffers an ADD or similar fault and ends at anywhere other than North Pole or Stoke Gifford, it can’t be repaired and tested. Whilst sets with diesel only restrictions aren’t ideal, they still come out and make the service.

*ADD - Automatic Dropping Device, drops the pan in certain circumstances.
Gotcha. So diesel IS the fallback position and electric is a nice to have.
 

Mintona

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Travelled on the 17:00 10 car unit 800 from Bristol to Swindon yesterday and it was on diesel, no switchover to electric east of Chippenham, it barely mustered 98 mph at Wootton Bassett junction so was 4 minutes late arrival at Swindon. It also departed Swindon on diesel. I have noticed that there seems to be an increasing number of class 800's operating diesel only under the wires - has anyone else observed that there are quite a few sets on diesel only restriction over the last week or so ?.

There’s an 85mph temporary speed restriction about a mile before Wootton Bassett Jn coming from Chippenham at the moment. So if the set was doing 98mph by the junction that’s some incredible acceleration on diesel.
 

Mintona

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It's historically quite low at the moment - just 6 sets but every 5 car that is diesel only puts it's colleague in a 10 car set to also being DO whilst it is coupled to the defective unit. Not possible to have two units running on different primary power sources.

Today 3 x 5 car 800, 1 x 9 car 800, 1 x 5 car 802 and 1 x 9 car 802 are DO with actual faults.

Apparently it is possible, it’s just never done.
 

Wychwood93

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There’s an 85mph temporary speed restriction about a mile before Wootton Bassett Jn coming from Chippenham at the moment. So if the set was doing 98mph by the junction that’s some incredible acceleration on diesel.
As a driver there is a more than fair chance you would know! I was timing the 10.00 ex-Bristol on the 6th, on AC after Chippenham - 126 after Dauntsey (good) but eased and braking around Trow Lane overbridge to 119, down to 90 at the former Incline box and a minimum of 76 before power on after the TSR for 87 at Wootton Bassett. The former box at 85m 23ch with the TSR from 84m 65ch to 84m 60ch and then, for the AC a neutral section from 83m 60ch to 83m 53ch.
 

fgwrich

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What is the current state of play with units running around on Diesel Only or with knocked out Gen Sets at the moment? I was covering a different station last night and noticed a number of the 9 car sets either with very screaming engines (310 IIRC), or units with no engine running at all.

For the drivers - From a drivers perspective, how are the 800s holding up in wet conditions? Something else I noticed last yesterday was that a fair number of the 800s seemed to be slipping quite badly while taking power in the rain, something the 802s did not seem to have any trouble with at all.
 

FGW_DID

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What is the current state of play with units running around on Diesel Only or with knocked out Gen Sets at the moment? I was covering a different station last night and noticed a number of the 9 car sets either with very screaming engines (310 IIRC), or units with no engine running at all.

For the drivers - From a drivers perspective, how are the 800s holding up in wet conditions? Something else I noticed last yesterday was that a fair number of the 800s seemed to be slipping quite badly while taking power in the rain, something the 802s did not seem to have any trouble with at all.

This morning: 6 with isolated GU, 11 with ‘diesel only’ restriction.
 

Bikeman78

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The resource, shed space and time that is spent on GU’s would be put into other areas, so if they were all electric, if wouldn’t be such an issue. The sheds weren’t designed to have so many diesel powered vehicles needing servicing.
This implies that the situation won't change much in the long term. Unless facilities are installed in Swansea and Plymouth to repair pantograph faults.
 

Railperf

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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I read this as implying diesel operation is the fallback position. Aren't electric trains supposed to be simpler and more reliable? I'd expect sets to be electric only more often.
An expensive fallback in the sense you are consuming more fuel ..and additional wear and tear on the engines = increased maintenance costs.

I assume Hitachi bear the maintenance costs ..unless additional clauses apply due to non electrification of the depots. Who pays the fuel bill?
Am i right in assuming it is 800 GUs failing more than 802s? And could that be due to a different maintenance regime?

Surely this needs to be addressed before the accelerated timetable comes into force? Otherwise lots of services will be running late.
 

samuelmorris

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This morning: 6 with isolated GU, 11 with ‘diesel only’ restriction.
Are there any statistics available about how this compares to other long distance DMUs?
What's the engine failure rate on things like Voyagers and what was it when they were new?
The number of GUs isolated still seems very high for units many of which aren't even a year old. Of course things go wrong but with the astronomically expensive maintenance agreement for these trains it's surprising they're still in that bad a state. Is that presumably because a formation stuck in diesel only and with GUs isolated still counts as serving a diagram and thus incurs no penalty, so the bare minimum to deliver that is being provided?
 

Rob F

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It's historically quite low at the moment - just 6 sets but every 5 car that is diesel only puts it's colleague in a 10 car set to also being DO whilst it is coupled to the defective unit. Not possible to have two units running on different primary power sources.

Today 3 x 5 car 800, 1 x 9 car 800, 1 x 5 car 802 and 1 x 9 car 802 are DO with actual faults.
With 2x5 IETS, how would the performance compare between running on diesel or running one unit on electric and dragging the other?
 

Mintona

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What is the current state of play with units running around on Diesel Only or with knocked out Gen Sets at the moment? I was covering a different station last night and noticed a number of the 9 car sets either with very screaming engines (310 IIRC), or units with no engine running at all.

For the drivers - From a drivers perspective, how are the 800s holding up in wet conditions? Something else I noticed last yesterday was that a fair number of the 800s seemed to be slipping quite badly while taking power in the rain, something the 802s did not seem to have any trouble with at all.

They aren’t too bad. Had an interesting experience with a pair of 802s yesterday afternoon coming into Nailsea with the speedo all over the place, but the brakes still worked efficiently and slowed the train down. The WSP equipment was working hard, and we didn’t have any issues stopping. A sudden downpour out of nowhere, it was sunny when we left Bristol!
 

delticdave

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Are there any statistics available about how this compares to other long distance DMUs?
What's the engine failure rate on things like Voyagers and what was it when they were new?
The number of GUs isolated still seems very high for units many of which aren't even a year old. Of course things go wrong but with the astronomically expensive maintenance agreement for these trains it's surprising they're still in that bad a state. Is that presumably because a formation stuck in diesel only and with GUs isolated still counts as serving a diagram and thus incurs no penalty, so the bare minimum to deliver that is being provided?

I'm confused, GU = GenSet? If so, Genset = diesel engine providing traction power or just HEP for lights & Aircon?

I used a couple of these units to get to / from Didcot last Saturday & most of the units seen at Didcot had their pans down.
I "think" that the 2 x 5 car on the 1245 Padd to Swansea was running as an EMU, I was in one of the intermediate cars
& there were no diesel sounds under-floor. Maximum speed recorded was 123 mph, is that possible on diesel between Padd & Reading? I changed there to an EMU to Didcot & didn't see Swansea train depart, so no idea which mode it was using.
 

swt_passenger

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I'm confused, GU = GenSet? If so, Genset = diesel engine providing traction power or just HEP for lights & Aircon?
Each “GU” provides both traction power and hotel services. I think the name chosen might just mean the entire package of engine and generator is on one raft...
 

JN114

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I used a couple of these units to get to / from Didcot last Saturday & most of the units seen at Didcot had their pans down.
I "think" that the 2 x 5 car on the 1245 Padd to Swansea was running as an EMU, I was in one of the intermediate cars
& there were no diesel sounds under-floor. Maximum speed recorded was 123 mph, is that possible on diesel between Padd & Reading? I changed there to an EMU to Didcot & didn't see Swansea train depart, so no idea which mode it was using.

You’ll normally only see them on Diesel power at Didcot; because they switch from electric to Diesel or vv for Steventon bridge east of Didcot when non-stop; or at Didcot when stopping.
 

JN114

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0741 and 0900 PNZ to PADD both 5 vice 10 this morning.

1A82 attached as booked at Plymouth, now on the way to London as a 10 car.

Appears to have been no set available on Laira for the attachment to 1A81, so yes 5v10 from Plymouth.
 

Goldfish62

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1A82 attached as booked at Plymouth, now on the way to London as a 10 car.

Appears to have been no set available on Laira for the attachment to 1A81, so yes 5v10 from Plymouth.
An insider forwarded me a screenshot from Tyrell showing 1A82 to be short-formed from Penzance so it's hardly "as booked" if they found a set to attach at Plymouth. In any case it would be madness scheduling this train as 5 through Cornwall.
 

FGW_DID

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1A81 & 1A82 can’t be shortformed from Penzance, they are both booked to run as 5 from Penzance and couple at Plymouth (with units that comes ECS from Laira)

Perhaps your ‘insider’ may want to check Tyrell and send you Update2 which states that 1A82 will run as booked

Which means 10 car from Plymouth to Paddington.

1A81 did indeed just run as 5 vice 10. (As JN114 indicated)
 
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irish_rail

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An insider forwarded me a screenshot from Tyrell showing 1A82 to be short-formed from Penzance so it's hardly "as booked" if they found a set to attach at Plymouth. In any case it would be madness scheduling this train as 5 through Cornwall.
1a82 should definitely be a 9 or a 10 regardless of what it is booked for gets very busy in Cornwall that one
 

Clarence Yard

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Both at North Pole, being modified to passenger standard. 800002 should be out in early July and 800001 has only just gone in and should be ready sometime around early September.
 
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