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GWR Shortage of Traincrew Weekend and During Week

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PHILIPE

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It might have had something to do with the closure of the line between Newport, Cardiff and Bridgend yesterday, with Swansea crews perhaps not rushing to volunteer to work a Sunday and then spend large parts of their day riding in taxis along the M4 in South Wales.

By the look of it not enough staff at Bristol and Paddington then volunteered to cover what was still running to Newport, plus the Bristol/Weston and Cheltenham services.

Swansea drivers would have been working to Bridgend and return. To continue, the cancellation to Cheltenham services has spread to this evening.
 
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Weekender

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GWR always give me the impression that the Cheltenham service is a nuisance to them, if they need to cancel any train it’s always the first to go.
I think even when Bristol goes to four trains per hour they will still sacrifice Cheltenham services if there is any disruption or staff shortages.
 

JN114

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GWR always give me the impression that the Cheltenham service is a nuisance to them, if they need to cancel any train it’s always the first to go.
I think even when Bristol goes to four trains per hour they will still sacrifice Cheltenham services if there is any disruption or staff shortages.

Not quite - in short it’s easier. For example with Paddington crew, the Cheltenhams are almost always same crew out and back; whereas Bristols will work train down, have a break and then work a different train back.

A driver not being available to cover a job to Bristol would likely result in 4 trains cancelled (the separate down and up workings plus their corresponding other direction workings); whereas you can take a driver off a Cheltenham and have them work those Bristols - 2 cancellations not 4.

Minimising the number of cancellations is ultimately the number 1 objective; if one line has to unfortunately bare the brunt for the greater majority then so be it. Believe me given the costs involved we’d rather not cancel anything.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I’m not sure what else could have been done...
In almost any other industry it'd not be a case of "would you like to?", but rather "we are changing your contract to require you to work on Sundays, and are paying you just the same". Those who didn't agree would have to leave.

But this is the rail industry, where two main factors mean that it's never going to happen that way. Firstly, the fact that it's so unusually heavily unionised - so companies would be very wary of strikes, and secondly the fact that it takes so long to train drivers. But if companies were happy to take on a degree of risk - perhaps with the support of the DfT (ha, ha, ha) - then it might be possible to overcome these issues.
 

Llanigraham

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In almost any other industry it'd not be a case of "would you like to?", but rather "we are changing your contract to require you to work on Sundays, and are paying you just the same". Those who didn't agree would have to leave.

But this is the rail industry, where two main factors mean that it's never going to happen that way. Firstly, the fact that it's so unusually heavily unionised - so companies would be very wary of strikes, and secondly the fact that it takes so long to train drivers. But if companies were happy to take on a degree of risk - perhaps with the support of the DfT (ha, ha, ha) - then it might be possible to overcome these issues.

That suggests you have a very simplistic understanding of employment legislation, labour relations and negotiations between companies, unions and workers.
And it most certainly does NOT just apply to the rail industry.
 

JN114

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That suggests you have a very simplistic understanding of employment legislation, labour relations and negotiations between companies, unions and workers.

No in fairness I think they acknowledge the unions wouldn’t have any of it in their second paragraph.

Whether that is right or not is a whole different question. Personally I think it’s a model all industries should work to - consulting staff (or their representatives) on changes to the business that move the goalposts of what we as staff originally signed up to. High employment turnover isn’t good for anyone as it lowers productivity - especially in professions like train drivers where there is a long lead in time for new recruits. To the comments of it’s only in the railway industry - it’s similar in the medical industry; in aviation - generally jobs which are very high skill, or require significant investment of time and money through the recruitment process.
 

Llanigraham

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What other industries does it apply to then?
What other industries does it apply to then?

Try nearly every industry that accepts that good relations with the workers, black, grey or white collared, is important.

And has been said numerous times on this Forum, it is the TOC's themselves who aren't pushing for adding Sunday to the working week.
 

EE Andy b1

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Sundays inside is an ASLEF charter aim. It'll be on GWR soon enough.
That is correct, but plenty of drivers don't want Sundays as part of there working week, just to have another Tuesday or Wednesday off, then struggling to cover there Sunday when having something else on.
 

Cardiff123

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That is correct, but plenty of drivers don't want Sundays as part of there working week, just to have another Tuesday or Wednesday off, then struggling to cover there Sunday when having something else on.
Train drivers should say that to people who work in the many other public services that run 7 days a week in this country, that have no choice in whether they work Sundays, and see what kind of response they get.
 

Scottychoo

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If train drivers don't want to work Sundays then they are clearly in the wrong job. This is 2019, get with the times or let others do the job who are prepared to work Sundays.
 

tiptoptaff

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If train drivers don't want to work Sundays then they are clearly in the wrong job. This is 2019, get with the times or let others do the job who are prepared to work Sundays.
A lot of the time, newer crew who come in to train crew roles, who have had to work Sundays elsewhere, are the ones who chuck in their Sundays now
 

Llanigraham

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If train drivers don't want to work Sundays then they are clearly in the wrong job. This is 2019, get with the times or let others do the job who are prepared to work Sundays.
Why?
Do many Civil Servants or Council workers work Sundays? Or garage mechanics? I could go on.
At the moment very few ToCs have included Sunday's in their working week, and neither has Network Rail for its staff and I see very little movement by them to do this.
 

Scottychoo

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Strange t & C's when a driver can opt out of a Sunday even when the company can't cover the work with a spare or rest day driver. GWR need to get Sundays into the working week ASAP, even if that means paying the price for them.
 

tiptoptaff

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Strange t & C's when a driver can opt out of a Sunday even when the company can't cover the work with a spare or rest day driver. GWR need to get Sundays into the working week ASAP, even if that means paying the price for them.
Technically, they can't. But as it's committed overtime, there are times when there's not enough committed people to cover the service - leave, sickness, extra trains for events, etc
 

Scottychoo

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So why don't gwr say every time a driver opts out ' sorry you can't, we can't cover your job on sunday' ? ASLEF and gwr need their heads banging together.
 

tiptoptaff

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So why don't gwr say every time a driver opts out ' sorry you can't, we can't cover your job on sunday' ? ASLEF and gwr need their heads banging together.
They do on occasion. Lots of N/A Declined on the Sunday sheets this week
 

Mintona

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Train drivers at GWR are employed on two separate contracts too. ‘GWR drivers’ are the new standard (any new starter will be a GWR driver) and are committed to work their Sundays if cover can’t be found. ‘HSS drivers’ have no such commitment and are perfectly entitled to not come in for any Sunday if they so wish. GWR drivers do pretty much the ex-LTV and Wessex services, whilst HSS drivers do the long distance high speed work.
 

dk1

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They do on occasion. Lots of N/A Declined on the Sunday sheets this week
I'm not one to throw my toys out of the pram & if declined always expect to come in but normally the duty traoncrew managers bust a gut & offer all sorts to get me & others off if they can bless them. There are however others who do not have so much of a conscience and will not come in no matter what. They may get spoken to at some point but there isn't much the company can do realistically so get away with it every time.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Looks like the London - Cheltenham services once again suffer from staff shortages today.

Not just that, there are 2 or a few Penzance to London diagrams that are 10 coaches instead of 5 between Penzance and Plymouth.

Gonna be a fun day then!
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Yes, 10v5 is an outrage.....

I know this is a bit irrelevant but I wouldn't be surprised if several of the IET services to and from London and Penzance run without catering too. There was a good few complaints on GWR's Twitter feed yesterday about poor catering on some routes.

I'm not one for ranting like people do when replying to a pinned tweet (a tweet where GWR advertise fares, deals and offers etc). If I do, then it's more of an honest opinion / concern.

To be honest, I'm very nearly wanting to join the list of people that want the buffet car back. More people wanted an at-seat service. However, I bet those people regret saying that now.
 

Tim456

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Not just that, there are 2 or a few Penzance to London diagrams that are 10 coaches instead of 5 between Penzance and Plymouth.
Extra capacity where there have been issues on IET services between Plymouth and Penzance, that’s a good thing isn’t it?
 

CC 72100

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There was no catering on my East Mids teain between St Pancras and Nottingham either yesterday... on a Saturday. #outrage
 

Weekender

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Only 16 cancellations and 6 partially cancelled when I looked this morning. Better but still not good enough.
 

SN1 19-5

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In my job, I can be out all day, then out all night as well. This isn't a problem as, I've been doing it for years. They do pay overtime where I am at the mo. This did cause problems at timesheet time. The high ups don't like to see 27 hours nonstop on a timesheet.

I was working 300 miles away from where I live last year, I offered to work six days on the trot (Tues-Sun start) then rolling on, just so that work would have cover on certain weekends and I could have a jolly or two when I eventually got home.. 300 miles away!

I only did Tues-Fri on normal work rota stuff at the time.

Work declined my offer. I am a one off. My situation isn't normal. I do what has to be done.

Driving trains on Sundays has to be done. Maybe I should apply for a job?

Nahh.
 

CharlesR

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In my job, I can be out all day, then out all night as well. This isn't a problem as, I've been doing it for years. They do pay overtime where I am at the mo. This did cause problems at timesheet time. The high ups don't like to see 27 hours nonstop on a timesheet.

I was working 300 miles away from where I live last year, I offered to work six days on the trot (Tues-Sun start) then rolling on, just so that work would have cover on certain weekends and I could have a jolly or two when I eventually got home.. 300 miles away!

I only did Tues-Fri on normal work rota stuff at the time.

Work declined my offer. I am a one off. My situation isn't normal. I do what has to be done.

Driving trains on Sundays has to be done. Maybe I should apply for a job?

Nahh.

62k a year is quite appealing
 
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