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23% of professional drivers base level crossing decisions on timetable knowledge

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Llanigraham

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A lot of level crossings are on relatively quiet branch lines. Most main lines don't have them.

There is no freight, empty stock moves, parcels, light engines, etc.

The services on these quiet branch lines generally run on time as well.

I can believe this.
There are level crossings on lots of lines that have 90mph limits, like the Cambrian. Is that a quiet branch line?

There certainly are un-timetabled moves on ALL lines. See my reply above.

Err?? No they dont. Delays can happen in any line, fast or slow, quiet or busy.
 
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30907

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I take these surveys with a pinch of salt unless the original questions and responses are provided, as the wording used in the media report can be very carefully used to give the message the sponsor is looking for. It doesn't say 'cross when lights are flashing or barriers are down', it simply says 'cross' (or 'drive over').

I agree about adding salt, but the quote in the original post is quite specific - "taking the risk....despite... knowing..."
 

Tetchytyke

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I agree about adding salt, but the quote in the original post is quite specific - "taking the risk....despite... knowing..."

Yes, but the question asked to the respondents isn't stated.

I'd be very sceptical of any report like this.
 

underbank

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I would class a professional driver as anyone that is driving a company vehicle as part of their profession, without which they could not do their job.

I wouldn't. A checkout girl uses her till all day, but it doesn't make her a professional in using it. For me, a professional driver is someone who's a better driver than average due to additional training in driving. Just doing a lot of something doesn't mean you're better at it.
 

underbank

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A lot of level crossings are on relatively quiet branch lines. Most main lines don't have them.

We have the WCML going through our village and there are 2 level crossings. I wouldn't have classed the WCML as a "relatively quiet branch line".

Back to the original topic, I think there has to be questions over why we use half barriers at all. They're just asking for people to drive/walk around them. I personally think we should be using full-width barriers on all "proper" roads so people simply can't ignore them. Then you're only remaining problem is people not stopping on flashing red. (Obviously not viable for farm access etc.)
 

al78

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What is a "professional driver"? A "profession" usually means years of relevant experience AND professional standard exams. HGV and PSV drivers are maybe "professional", but your bog-standard van or taxi driver isn't a "professional" - they're just people who do a lot of driving.

A professional driver is someone who is paid for driving and earning a living from it, so that would include taxi drivers and lorry drivers.
 

al78

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Back to the original topic, I think there has to be questions over why we use half barriers at all.

With half barriers, a vehicle which breaks down/stalls on the crossing can be pushed off if the barriers start to fall.
 

xfield

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Have red-light cameras been trialled on crossings? If people thought their license was at risk they'd unlikely run the light?

I was also going to ask why standard traffic lights aren't used, but then found this:
The wig-wag signal is used where the need for a vehicle to stop is paramount but often difficult for a driver to forecast. This is unlike a signal change at a junction, or stand-alone crossing, where the need to stop is likely to be regular and/or the vehicle driver can often see the reason for the impending change. At a wigwag installation the change can be due to someone pushing a button, say, in a fire station, or a train arriving at a point on the track some distance away. This unexpected need to stop requires a different type of signal.
 

PG

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With half barriers, a vehicle which breaks down/stalls on the crossing can be pushed off if the barriers start to fall.

If my car breaks down on a level crossing then the first thing I'll be doing is getting out of it and using the crossing phone to alert the signaller... I won't be thinking about trying to push it off the crossing!
 

RLBH

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A professional driver is someone who is paid for driving and earning a living from it, so that would include taxi drivers and lorry drivers.
This is the only sensible way to define the term, IMHO.

I can well believe that one in four drivers would be willing to use a crossing if they believed that there were no more trains due. Most people are vaguely aware that freight trains don't appear in the public timetable, but don't have a clue about all the other things that can lead to an unadvertised train running. Chuck in a bit of complacency due to familiarity, and time pressure, and risk taking is more or less inevitable. Half barriers and unbarriered crossings don't help, but even fully barriered crossings see their fair share of people trying to ignore them.

I wonder what the equivalent statistic would be for people trying to pass 'wig-wag' signals in other environments - fire stations are the most familiar one, of course, but there are others. Significantly better, I should think; in those cases, the reason for the stop signal is generally pretty obvious.

There was another study done a little while ago that found that half of HGV drivers didn't know the height of their vehicle, whilst half of HGVs were over-height; the implication being that one in four HGVs is a bridge strike waiting to happen. Really, professional drivers ought to be held to a much higher standard than private motorists. I don't get the sense that they are, though - a professional driver is reasonably likely to get away with all sorts of things that would see someone in the rail, maritime or air transport industries sacked on the spot.
 

edwin_m

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Have red-light cameras been trialled on crossings? If people thought their license was at risk they'd unlikely run the light?

I was also going to ask why standard traffic lights aren't used, but then found this:
The reason normally quoted is that a wig-wag is an absolute stop signal, unlike red traffic lights which emergency vehicles are allowed to pass on "blues and twos". As well as the other places mentioned, they are used to protect moveable bridges.

There have been varous trials of enforcement cameras at level crossings, but rather surprisingly they don't seem to be cost-effective.
 

Llanigraham

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Have red-light cameras been trialled on crossings? If people thought their license was at risk they'd unlikely run the light?
:

Yes they are used, but even when obviously visible I have seen drivers still ignore the lights.
 

thenorthern

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What type of crossings are we talking about? If we are talking about ones that have half barriers then anyone who swerves round them when they are down without authorisation then they should be locked up in jail if you ask me.

If we are talking about ones where there are coloured lights but no barriers again they are ignoring a red light which is dangerous.

However on some small rural roads there are unguarded crossings sometimes with gates where users are supposed to telephone the interlocking tower to check if its safe to cross before they do cross. The survey may be talking about drivers who don't telephone the interlocking tower before and just cross based on their knowledge of timetables.

None of these options is safe however the type of crossings that drivers are ignoring is not clear by the survey.
 

Llanigraham

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What type of crossings are we talking about? If we are talking about ones that have half barriers then anyone who swerves round them when they are down without authorisation then they should be locked up in jail if you ask me.

If we are talking about ones where there are coloured lights but no barriers again they are ignoring a red light which is dangerous.

However on some small rural roads there are unguarded crossings sometimes with gates where users are supposed to telephone the interlocking tower to check if its safe to cross before they do cross. The survey may be talking about drivers who don't telephone the interlocking tower before and just cross based on their knowledge of timetables.

None of these options is safe however the type of crossings that drivers are ignoring is not clear by the survey.

Interlocking towers?
 

RLBH

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Interlocking towers?
Signalboxes, but in American. Their signalling system is very different from the British one and what we would consider a properly interlocked and signalled junction is a bit of a novelty to them.
 

Llanigraham

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I know exactly what they are, I just couldn't understand why "the northern" used such an incorrect description when discussing a very British system.
 

cjmillsnun

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What is a "professional driver"? A "profession" usually means years of relevant experience AND professional standard exams. HGV and PSV drivers are maybe "professional", but your bog-standard van or taxi driver isn't a "professional" - they're just people who do a lot of driving.
It would include van, minibus and taxi drivers. Essentially they are paid to drive.
 
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