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Woman asked to give up seat on train for child.

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Scousemouse

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I'm not against people being nice.
But I am against the expectation that anyone (not just men!) should give up their seat for anyone else.

We live in a world of trying to be equal.
If the boat is sinking, it shouldn't be women and children first any more.

Totally agree.

ADults should be chosen on their usefulness to the people left alive after the boat sinks.

I can even make a good argument for getting adults off first before the children. If the boat sinks and there are no adults alive because the children took up most of the seats and the ones that got off perished, then you have lord of the flies and chaos.

If the adults get off instead of the children then you can reproduce more children.
 
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Old Yard Dog

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Able-bodied children should stand up for adults and not vice versa. Younger generations are turning the subsequent generation into spoilt little brats.
 

bramling

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Able-bodied children should stand up for adults and not vice versa. Younger generations are turning the subsequent generation into spoilt little brats.

I really don't see why either group should stand up for the other, the only slightly persuasive reason being that children pay less (especially those who travel for free), however if we go down that road then perhaps we could say that people on cheap advance fares should give up their seat to anytime ticket holders - which I'm sure would go down well!

Seems to me that all this is more a case of "Oh dear there aren't enough seats, how can I find a way of getting what I want?", and looking for a viable excuse to metaphorically trample over someone else.
 

Darandio

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Totally agree.

ADults should be chosen on their usefulness to the people left alive after the boat sinks.

I can even make a good argument for getting adults off first before the children. If the boat sinks and there are no adults alive because the children took up most of the seats and the ones that got off perished, then you have lord of the flies and chaos.

If the adults get off instead of the children then you can reproduce more children.

What a weird and disturbing post.
 

172006

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I really don't see why either group should stand up for the other, the only slightly persuasive reason being that children pay less (especially those who travel for free)
By that logic, should a disabled person using a Freedom Pass have to give up a seat to a paying passenger?
If someone needs your seat more than you do, offer it to them, otherwise seats are first come first serve.
 

bramling

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By that logic, should a disabled person using a Freedom Pass have to give up a seat to a paying passenger?
If someone needs your seat more than you do, offer it to them, otherwise seats are first come first serve.

Which is my point, it all starts to become problematic, for no real gain. If people really want a seat then it's normally quite possible to plan things accordingly, with a bit of thought and perhaps some flexibility on which service one chooses or which part of the train one chooses to board.
 

stj

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I'm sure buses in the 80s used to have signs saying that children should not occupy seats when adults are standing, or words to that effect. However, buses allowed smoking upstairs in the 80s, so just because something was OK back then, doesn't mean it is OK now.
Yes they did
 

Scousemouse

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The problem is that at some point "they" decided that childrens rights are more important than adults and look where we are now.
 

HOOVER29

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I’ll gladly give my seat up for the elderly, male or female without question.
As for a child unless that child is physically incapable of standing for any reasonable period of time then no.
I’ve given my seat up for a woman before while down south leaving Clapham junction for Basingstoke & the look she gave me as she pushed past without even so much as a thank you.
She wasn’t a youngish lady, I’d say in her early to mid 30’s
Miserable some people are, pure miserable.
And ungrateful.
 

VT 390

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Not exactly like other examples but a few weeks ago when I was travelling from Birmingham New Street to London Euston on a fairly busy Virgin Trains service I was asked to give up my seat to a child who looked about 5 as the mother had reserved the seat next to my reserved seat and they wanted to sit together (the child did not have a reservation). I had specifically booked that seat and if there was an similar unreserved seat I would have possible moved but as there was not I did not.
 

al78

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Why? Children should respect their elders.

No, children, and everyone else for that matter, should at in a thoughtful and considerate manner towards others, follow the basic rule of treat others how you would like to be treated yourself. No-one deserves more respect purely because they have existed for a longer time.
 
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driver_m

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What a weird and disturbing post.

The whole thread has a weird and disturbing feel to it. Wish I hadn’t read it. I used to feel it was a case of look after the elderly all the time, it’s how I was brought up, but with the hugely selfish attitudes of a number of the baby boomer generation now I wouldn’t necessarily go with this anymore. Having kids of your own opens your eyes to the petty nastiness of a lot of people. Just take a small child on a plane as an example and watch the eye rolling and tutting and muttering, or the judging and condemnation from people passing a kid in a trolley who’s having a bit of a whinge. This country is one of the most anti-child places in the world sadly. Yes there are SOME horrible kids, but there’s a lot of good ones. The article and reaction on here says it all.
 

Darandio

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The whole thread has a weird and disturbing feel to it. Wish I hadn’t read it. I used to feel it was a case of look after the elderly all the time, it’s how I was brought up, but with the hugely selfish attitudes of a number of the baby boomer generation now I wouldn’t necessarily go with this anymore. Having kids of your own opens your eyes to the petty nastiness of a lot of people. Just take a small child on a plane as an example and watch the eye rolling and tutting and muttering, or the judging and condemnation from people passing a kid in a trolley who’s having a bit of a whinge. This country is one of the most anti-child places in the world sadly. Yes there are SOME horrible kids, but there’s a lot of good ones. The article and reaction on here says it all.

Have you took them in First Class on a train yet? Some of the looks are hilarious, you would think Fred West had just walked in the carriage.
 

172006

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a child who looked about 5

the child did not have a reservation
In that case the child was probably not yet 5 so couldn't buy a reservation without a ticket. A child that age should be able to sit in his/her mother's lap, or they could walk through the train in search of two available seats together.
 

al78

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I'm not against people being nice.
But I am against the expectation that anyone (not just men!) should give up their seat for anyone else.

We live in a world of trying to be equal.
If the boat is sinking, it shouldn't be women and children first any more.

Actually it might be, that philosophy is based on the principle of male expendability. Historically, the success of a civilisation was correlated with its population size, those civilisations with larger populations were better equipped for exploring and conquering. The rate at which a population can grow is proportional to the number of women. A woman can only have a very limited number of children in her lifetime. In contrast, a man can spread his seed around and theoretically father thousands of children. Thus, to build up a population, you need a lot of wombs but only a few penises are required for fertilization. Therefore, on a societal scale, it is less of a loss to lose a man than to lose a woman i.e. a woman has more value to society than a man. This is why it is men who are sent off to explore unknown lands, sent off to fight and die in wars, disproportionately do the dangerous jobs in society, because a civilisation can afford to lose men more than it can afford to lose women.

http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm
 

Bletchleyite

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Actually it might be, that philosophy is based on the principle of male expendability. Historically, the success of a civilisation was correlated with its population size, those civilisations with larger populations were better equipped for exploring and conquering. The rate at which a population can grow is proportional to the number of women. A woman can only have a very limited number of children in her lifetime. In contrast, a man can spread his seed around and theoretically father thousands of children. Thus, to build up a population, you need a lot of wombs but only a few penises are required for fertilization. Therefore, on a societal scale, it is less of a loss to lose a man than to lose a woman i.e. a woman has more value to society than a man. This is why it is men who are sent off to explore unknown lands, sent off to fight and die in wars, disproportionately do the dangerous jobs in society, because a civilisation can afford to lose men more than it can afford to lose women.

http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

That's quite interesting and puts a very different spin on discrimination.
 

steve1981

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The whole giving up a seat thing is for people that need it more than you do I.e
Pregnant
Old
Disabled
Unwell
Female
Young children
However I do believe when someone has paid for a ticket they are entitled to choose if they want to give that seat up or not, in some cases you would obviously give it up but there are some people that expect seats and don't necessarily need them.
Personally I think there are not enough gentlemen out there
 

trainophile

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On a 2+3 Pacer today, and a tot of about three was jumping around on the aisle end of a 3-seat row. The train was pretty busy so I (nicely and unthreateningly) asked said child (at that stage parent was not evident) if I could get past to the window seat. At that point a woman across the aisle (incidentally occupying two seats with her bags, and as it turned out another child occupying the two behind her) pipes up "she was sitting there". I said "well there's only one of her and three seats", to which I got a snarled reply of "she was lying down" o_O . Oh I beg your pardon then, we should seek other seats so that your daughter can lie down on three of them?
 

Garmoran

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So what? If you’re in a different country you wouldn’t expect people in that country to do something just because it’s your culture, would you?
You obviously haven't spent any time eavesdropping on British tourists abroad marvelling/complaining about how things are done differently from at home. Anyone working in the tourist industry of any country will be able to testify that most people expect their own culture to be the default way of behaving.

This country is one of the most anti-child places in the world sadly. Yes there are SOME horrible kids, but there’s a lot of good ones. The article and reaction on here says it all.
I think you have been unlucky or live somewhere untypical as this is certainly not true of everywhere in Britain. When my children were born and I started having to go places with small children I was pleasantly surprised by how helpful and considerate most people were.

However, I certainly would not have expected anyone to stand up and give them their seat on a train
 

Calum1

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Me personally if I'm on a bus or train and someone is in more need of the seat than I am whether pregnant disabled elderly or anything I will give it up as I'm perfectly capable of standing.
The thing that bothers me when I have given a seat up, sometimes people have not even given me a simple thank you or cheers mate anything like that. Just because your old or pregnant or disabled doesn't excuse the lack of basic manners to me.
 

maire23

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Me personally if I'm on a bus or train and someone is in more need of the seat than I am whether pregnant disabled elderly or anything I will give it up as I'm perfectly capable of standing.
The thing that bothers me when I have given a seat up, sometimes people have not even given me a simple thank you or cheers mate anything like that. Just because your old or pregnant or disabled doesn't excuse the lack of basic manners to me.
Totally with you on this one. If someone gives up their seat for me I will always either say thank you or at the very least I will nod and smile (I have very bad social anxiety so I can’t always speak coherently) Manners cost nothing!
 

Bromley boy

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The whole giving up a seat thing is for people that need it more than you do I.e
Pregnant
Old
Disabled
Unwell
Female
Young children
However I do believe when someone has paid for a ticket they are entitled to choose if they want to give that seat up or not, in some cases you would obviously give it up but there are some people that expect seats and don't necessarily need them.
Personally I think there are not enough gentlemen out there

Why would an able bodied female “need it more” than a similarly able bodied male?
 

Altfish

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I was offered a seat on the tram yesterday evening by a school girl, I politely declined but it was good to see that she had been brought up well.
 

Bletchleyite

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I just couldn't sit while a woman stands holding a rail I was raised to show respect I guess

I'm not sure it is seen as respect in 2019.

Plus I work on the rail so naturally passengers come first

Staff giving seats to passengers is a slightly different scenario. The rules are (I believe) that unless a public fare has been paid the seat must be given up if needed anyway.
 
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