Break of Journey in London

DelW · 20 Jun 2019

I think I know the answer to this one, but would just like some confirmation...

On Sunday evening I'll be travelling from Milton Keynes to Surrey using the return half of an off-peak period return. However I want to stop off to meet friends near Leicester Square. AIUI my NR ticket will be good for one journey (only) between any zone 1 stations, so I could use it for the Northern Line from Euston to Leicester Square, or from Leicester Square to Waterloo, but not both.

If that's right, is there any benefit in choosing one or other option, in terms of it working barriers and avoiding gate-line hassle?

If there's no difference, my other option is to use a bus from Euston to the meeting point, saving an Oyster tube fare (I have a bus but not Freedom pass). I wouldn't want to rely on the bus for a late-evening connection to Waterloo.

TIA for any expert views.

RailUK Forums

Romilly · 20 Jun 2019

Assuming your ticket is valid for the cross-London journey, you can use it for Euston to Leicester Square. You will then need another ticket to get to Waterloo. You cannot use your ticket to enter at Leicester Square: see 7.3.1 in the forum's Fares & Ticketing Guide.

Bletchleyite · 20 Jun 2019

Romilly said:
Assuming your ticket is valid for the cross-London journey, you can use it for Euston to Leicester Square. You will then need another ticket to get to Waterloo. You cannot use your ticket to enter at Leicester Square: see 7.3.1 in the forum's Fares & Ticketing Guide.

However, beware that you are very likely to have a pointless argument with the LU staff there as they won't believe that it is valid to do that even though it unquestionably is. In my experience tickets with + only open barriers at the main termini.

Talking of buses, from Leicester Square I'd use the 59/68/168 to Waterloo every time, it's quick, convenient and has one of the best views of London from the top deck over Waterloo Bridge, particularly at night. It might be a bit less frequent late on but it should be punctual as there's little traffic to knacker it at that sort of time.

100andthirty · 20 Jun 2019

To be fair, 59/68/168 don't go all that near to Leicester Sq as they travel down Southampton Row past Holborn station and around Aldwych before crossing Waterloo Bridge.

DelW · 20 Jun 2019

Thanks for responses, so not quite as easy as I'd hoped.

Re the buses, I've used 68/168 between Euston and Waterloo a few times, but sadly they run via Kingsway and Aldwych, which is nearly as far to walk to as Waterloo. The only route I can see from Leicester Square to Waterloo is the 176, which shows as every 10-13 minutes on Sunday with 16 min journey time, so potentially almost 30 min wait+travel. I think an Oyster card trip on the Northern line will be safer.

[Edit, thanks to 100andthirty, made the same point just before I did]

Bletchleyite · 20 Jun 2019

100andthirty said:
To be fair, 59/68/168 don't go all that near to Leicester Sq as they travel down Southampton Row past Holborn station and around Aldwych before crossing Waterloo Bridge.

Fair point, since looked at a map, it's not as near as I thought it was.

Starmill · 20 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
However, beware that you are very likely to have a pointless argument with the LU staff there as they won't believe that it is valid to do that even though it unquestionably is. In my experience tickets with + only open barriers at the main termini.

I agree that this is certainly a clear possibility, but in my experience, if station staff are trying to tell you your ticket is not valid, just saying 'oh right, well I am here now so could you let me out anyway please'? always yields a positive result. The LU staff have sometimes wished to mark my ticket as used on LU, which is no problem by me.

They certainly wouldn't let you back in, but that's never a problem, as I would be paying for my onward journey (or just walking!) anyway.

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2019

How much more expensive is a milton keynes to zone 1-6 ticket it might be worth getting that.

eastwestdivide · 20 Jun 2019

Bear in mind it's only a mile to walk from Leicester Sq to Waterloo if you're comfortable doing that.

ThisIsSurbiton · 20 Jun 2019

Why not walk from Leicester Square to Charing Cross and get the train over the river? (Edit for spelling)

DelW · 20 Jun 2019

matt_world2004 said:
How much more expensive is a milton keynes to zone 1-6 ticket it might be worth getting that.

I've already got a through ticket on to my final destination on SWR.

eastwestdivide said:
Bear in mind it's only a mile to walk from Leicester Sq to Waterloo if you're comfortable doing that.

I've done similar many times, just want to maximise time socialising before I have to head off for the train.

ThisIsSurbiton said:
Why not walk from Leicester Aquare to Charing Cross and get the train over the river?

That hadn't occurred to me, but it might allow me to use the validity of my transfer ticket. Or if I've used a bus from Euston to LS, I could presumably use the NR ticket to join the tube at Charing X and exit at Waterloo.

Thanks all for suggestions.

Haywain · 20 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
However, beware that you are very likely to have a pointless argument with the LU staff there as they won't believe that it is valid to do that even though it unquestionably is. In my experience tickets with + only open barriers at the main termini.

In my (limited, recently) experience the problem is with the LU staff thinking that you will expect to continue using the same ticket for the onward journey. Explaining that you know you will have to pay for the next bit on the underground should reduce the problem.

mmh · 20 Jun 2019

DelW said:
I've already got a through ticket on to my final destination on SWR.

I've done similar many times, just want to maximise time socialising before I have to head off for the train.

That hadn't occurred to me, but it might allow me to use the validity of my transfer ticket. Or if I've used a bus from Euston to LS, I could presumably use the NR ticket to join the tube at Charing X and exit at Waterloo.

Thanks all for suggestions.

Bus from Euston to Leicester Square is awkward because the roads between the two are one way in the wrong direction, so the closest you can get on the aforementioned 59, 68 and 168 is Aldwych. The 91 goes the same way as those buses from Euston to Aldwych then, instead of going over Waterloo Bridge goes to Trafalgar Square which is closer and a far more obvious walking route.

Sadly for these journeys though, despite much preferring the bus to tube, I wouldn't use the bus. Traffic along the Strand, which both the 91 and the direct 176 bus from Leicester Square to Waterloo use, is often horrendous and much slower than walking speed.

From Leicester Square to Waterloo, the quickest option is tube. If you walk to Charing Cross you could consider carrying on by foot over the footbridges alongside the railway bridge - the walk between Waterloo East and Waterloo may cancel out a lot of any time saving.

MotorcycleAlan · 20 Jun 2019

If I am in a rush, or it is raining I jump on the next NR train from Charing X to Waterloo East, and the covered walk from East to "main" Waterloo is no longer than from the deep tube platforms. Most tickets from Waterloo seem to be valid from Charing X if marked London Terminals.

DavidGrain · 20 Jun 2019

MotorcycleAlan said:
If I am in a rush, or it is raining I jump on the next NR train from Charing X to Waterloo East, and the covered walk from East to "main" Waterloo is no longer than from the deep tube platforms. Most tickets from Waterloo seem to be valid from Charing X if marked London Terminals.

But a through ticket via London will not say London Terminals

Hadders · 20 Jun 2019

But if it’s a walk up ticket valid from Waterloo it’ll also be valid from Charing Cross Via Waterloo East.

Surreytraveller · 20 Jun 2019

DelW said:
That hadn't occurred to me, but it might allow me to use the validity of my transfer ticket. Or if I've used a bus from Euston to LS, I could presumably use the NR ticket to join the tube at Charing X and exit at Waterloo.

Your ticket wouldn't be valid to get on the Tube at Charing Cross, as even if it worked the barriers, it wouldn't be a valid route from Milton Keynes. A National Rail ticket across London is only valid to travel between terminals, not to start your tube journey elsewhere, although you are allowed to leave the system elsewhere (you didn't used to be able to do that - which is probably why some LU staff still don't allow you to do it )

Surreytraveller · 20 Jun 2019

matt_world2004 said:
How much more expensive is a milton keynes to zone 1-6 ticket it might be worth getting that.

The OP said they are going to Surrey. A Zone 1-6 ticket wouldn't take them to their destination

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2019

Surreytraveller said:
The OP said they are going to Surrey. A Zone 1-6 ticket wouldn't take them to their destination

Epson downs, ewell east, tattenham courner are all in surrey

Surreytraveller · 20 Jun 2019

matt_world2004 said:
Epson downs, ewell east, tattenham courner are all in surrey

Yes, but not served by SWR

I suppose Thames Ditton is in Surrey, also in Zone 6 and served by SWR, so the OP may have been going there. There might be one or two stations in the Ashford area that are the same?

yorkie · 20 Jun 2019

LU staff are instructed to allow passengers to exit at an intermediate station such as Leicester Square, but the cross-London transfer element of the ticket is then considered to have expired so you cannot re-enter.

In practice some LU staff will be reluctant to allow a passenger to exit, so the possibility of a dispute cannot be ruled out. I agree that asking nicely is likely to yield a positive result. It would be unlawful for them to detain you though I wouldn't say this except as a last resort.

JB_B · 20 Jun 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Yes, but not served by SWR I suppose Thames Ditton is in Surrey, also in Zone 6 and served by SWR, so the OP may have been going there. There might be one or two stations in the Ashford area that are the same?

I think that there around 12 stations in Zone 6 that lie within the current Surrey County area (spread across the second tier authorities of Tandridge, Elmbridge, Reigate& Banstead and Epsom and Ewell) .

Those served by SWR include Thames Ditton, Hampton Court and Ewell West.

MikeWh · 21 Jun 2019

Bit late on this one, but any through ticket valid to South London and beyond destinations is valid via any South London terminal. Charing Cross to Waterloo East is absolutely fine and Leicester Square is a very short walk from Charing Cross.

Surreytraveller · 21 Jun 2019

MikeWh said:
Bit late on this one, but any through ticket valid to South London and beyond destinations is valid via any South London terminal. Charing Cross to Waterloo East is absolutely fine and Leicester Square is a very short walk from Charing Cross.

Unless it is routed Thameslink Only

methethpropbut · 21 Jun 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Unless it is routed Thameslink Only

I'd hope that a ticket with "Milton Keynes" written on it is very much not routed Thameslink Only!

Bletchleyite · 21 Jun 2019

yorkie said:
In practice some LU staff will be reluctant to allow a passenger to exit, so the possibility of a dispute cannot be ruled out. I agree that asking nicely is likely to yield a positive result. It would be unlawful for them to detain you though I wouldn't say this except as a last resort.

The issue I had was at Regents Park[1], and I was let out (using that classic "I'll do you a favour *this* time" line) after I pointed out that under no circumstances was I going to accept a Penalty Fare or UFN, nor did they have grounds to issue one as I could just return to the platform and continue if I wanted, and given that there was no rule against me standing on that side of the barrier for as long as I wanted (as that didn't constitute break of journey) I would just continue to do so until they saw sense. They did eventually see sense and let me out.

[1] I was doing Paddington to Euston via Oxford Circus - it was a while ago when avoiding the Circle was the thing to do due to severe overcrowding on the old stock - but decided to get out and walk Regents Park-Euston as the weather was nice.

yorkie · 21 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The issue I had was at Regents Park[1], and I was let out (using that classic "I'll do you a favour *this* time" line) after I pointed out that under no circumstances was I going to accept a Penalty Fare or UFN, nor did they have grounds to issue one as I could just return to the platform and continue if I wanted, and given that there was no rule against me standing on that side of the barrier for as long as I wanted (as that didn't constitute break of journey) I would just continue to do so until they saw sense. They did eventually see sense and let me out.

If they were gateline staff, rather than revenue staff, they would not be able to issue a PF anyway. You could just say you are feeling hot/unwell and would like fresh air.

DelW · 24 Jun 2019

In the end, to save possible hassle, I did both transfers by bus.
Walking out onto Euston Road, I just missed a 390 and saw no sign of a 73, so I walked up to Hampstead Road and caught a 24 to Cambridge Circus.
At closing time I headed across to Charing Cross Road where a 176 was approaching, so I caught that, which took under 10 minutes to Waterloo.
Picking up a point above, my final destination was on the Portsmouth line, well beyond zone 6.
Thanks to all who responded.

Break of Journey in London

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

On Moderation

On Moderation

Established Member

On Moderation

Forum Staff

Established Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Member

Veteran Member

Forum Staff

Established Member