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LNER/TP Ticket Issue

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Haywain

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When I bought the ticket and downloaded it, I was on Rome time. But, regardless of the time in Italy, the 1653 train from Manchester Airport will always be the 1653.
I am pretty certain that what has happened is that when the e-ticket downloaded to your phone it had the correct time but the app has then adjusted the time when you arrived back in the UK. Thus it has gone back an hour as the clock on your phone did. This is clearly a fault with the way the app works.
 

yorkie

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I concur with @Haywain; it is an app fault, it does relate to issues with time zones, and a very helpful person from LNER is already looking into it :)
 

gordonthemoron

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I bought a ticket from Thalys from Paris to Brussels last year, when I downloaded it to my iPhone (whilst in UK) it showed the train as an hour earlier than the one I booked. However, when I was in Paris this changed to the correct time, the train number was always correct. Seems something wrong with LNER app/website
 

najaB

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These libraries are usually locale aware and their default behaviour would be to convert the time to the current timezone, a subtle issue which requires a decent tester to spot.
As has been pointed out above, why does the arrival time not also display the same offset?
 

Haywain

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As has been pointed out above, why does the arrival time not also display the same offset?
The arrival time is correct because it is shown in the email confirmation, alongside the correct departure time. As stated above, more than once, the fault is in the app and occurs where tickets are downloaded in a different time zone to that of the UK because the phone/app adjusts the times in line with the time zone when UK time is detected as being appropriate.
a subtle issue which requires a decent tester to spot.
A decent tester with a budget to travel to a different time zone.
a very helpful person from LNER is already looking into it
More than one...
 

Starmill

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A decent tester with a budget to travel to a different time zone.
Surely it's not too difficult to spoof a smartphone into thinking it's in a different time zone? Not something I would ever have thought of. Then again, I'm not an app developer.
 

najaB

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As stated above, more than once, the fault is in the app and occurs where tickets are downloaded in a different time zone to that of the UK
Very odd that it affects one time and not the other.
 

Saperstein

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23C728FE-54B5-457E-A0C5-2EF25B48D021.png CB53DE44-023C-4062-BD4F-A1C3609194EF.png

Surely it's not too difficult to spoof a smartphone into thinking it's in a different time zone? Not something I would ever have thought of. Then again, I'm not an app developer.

It seems easy enough to fool the iPhone into thinking one is in a different time zone.

As a test I’ve just gone into my iPhone settings and changed the time to manual and the zone to Rome, Italy. At the top of my screen as I type it says the time is. 20:48, a useful test.
 

_toommm_

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View attachment 64689 View attachment 64690



It seems easy enough to fool the iPhone into thinking one is in a different time zone.

As a test I’ve just gone into my iPhone settings and changed the time to manual and the zone to Rome, Italy. At the top of my screen as I type it says the time is. 20:48, a useful test.

But all phones can do that... it's not fooling it, its utilising a built in feature enabling you to change the time.
 

najaB

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At the top of my screen as I type it says the time is. 20:48, a useful test.
The real test is what time would a ticket show if activated in a different time zone? And what time would it show once the phone reverted to normal?

I'm still not sure how the time on the ticket was one hour late, rather than one hour early though. One would have thought that if the time displayed was local to the device at the time the ticket was activated, then when you returned to the UK it would display one hour earlier - 1535 CEST is 1435BST.

Ignore the above...

It's almost as if the app developer has caused a problem by trying to avoid a problem. All the more reason to store times as Unix timestamps.
 

Haywain

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Very odd that it affects one time and not the other.
It only affects the departure time because the app only shows the departure time. If it showed the arrival time that would be affected! Both are shown on the confirmation email which is not affected because it's an email.
 

najaB

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It only affects the departure time because the app only shows the departure time. If it showed the arrival time that would be affected! Both are shown on the confirmation email which is not affected because it's an email.
It does indeed, somehow I got it into my head that the ticket showed both.
 

paddington

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This is why I prefer to use websites for any sort of transactions even when on my phone. I set my browsers to display the desktop site always.

I note that my phone likes to auto-import details of my booked flights and trains (in multiple countries), but the times that it thinks I am meant to be travelling are unreliable. During BST all my trains seem to depart one hour earlier than they should, because it is displaying the UTC+0 time. This could probably be fixed with a bit of digging, but I don't need to fix it, as I ignore/block the "native" notifications and use my own free text note-taking app for itinerary plans. I prefer not to have things being "helpful" of their own accord.

I am taking a train at 0930 today but Gmail tells me it will be at 0830. Although I booked it online on my phone (using the desktop website) I used TOD, so I am certain my advance ticket is for the 0930.

subtle but possibly important point: the 15:53 reaches SHF at 17:09 not 17:10, so it doesn't seem like it is a timezone issue - if it was the arrival time would have read 18:09 instead of 18:10

Sorry if I missed it but has this discrepancy been explained?
 

Iskra

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This from TP customer services:

[Long winded generic bit about staff conduct]
After looking into your complaint, I can confirm that the staff member was correct in charging you for a new ticket as your original ticket was not valid for the time you were travelling.

I do hope your future journeys with us are far less problematic and more pleasurable and that I have been able to impress upon you the attention that your complaint will be given.

Thoughts?
 

najaB

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After looking into your complaint, I can confirm that the staff member was correct in charging you for a new ticket as your original ticket was not valid for the time you were travelling.
Thoughts?
I'd enquire how they came to the conclusion that your ticket wasn't valid due to what was, effectively, a printing error.
 

yorkie

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TPE customer services can be appalling in their responses; this ilresponse is therefore not a surprise to me, sadly.

Write to them again. If they refuse to address the issue, go to the ombudsman.

I'm aware of cases where a passenger (a member of this forum) was incorrectly charged by TPE Guard when travelling in accordance with their travel itinerary. TPE refused to accept they were wrong. The customer had booked with a retailer whose founders are also members of this forum and a letter was sent to an expert at TPE, who was extremely apologetic and ensured the matter is as dealt with appropriately.

So if TPE continue to refuse to engage, you could see if LNER will assist; for something like this I'd argue that a good retailer should help if they possibly can.

The biggest challenge is getting past the unknowledgeable customer services people and ensuring that someone who actually had a clue reads your message. With some TOCs that can be a huge challenge for an ordinary customer

Let us know what happens next.
 

Iskra

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On Tuesday, I sent TP an email back expressing my disappointment that they didn't read my previous email and politely asserting my rights and the correct process that should have been followed. I've told them should they fail to rectify it at what is now the third opportunity, I will have no choice but to involve the ombudsman.

However, some good news from LNER today:

Dear Mr Iskra,

Thank you for getting in touch with us at London North Eastern Railway.

I have investigated your case, and can see that your travel itinerary and booking on our site does state a different time than your ticket. I have now reported this error to our IT service desk, where it will be looked into. In regards to the tickets, we would like to raise the cost of the ticket you had to purchase on the Trans Pennine service, as well as a £25.00 gesture of good will, totalling £43.55 for your experiences with us. All we would need to finalise this would be your compensation preference, and I have included details of how to provide this of below.

10/10 to LNER. I'm now at a point where I am happy that I've been correctly compensated.

Should TP eventually cough-up, I will donate it to a railway charity.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice.
 

_toommm_

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On Tuesday, I sent TP an email back expressing my disappointment that they didn't read my previous email and politely asserting my rights and the correct process that should have been followed. I've told them should they fail to rectify it at what is now the third opportunity, I will have no choice but to involve the ombudsman.

However, some good news from LNER today:



10/10 to LNER. I'm now at a point where I am happy that I've been correctly compensated.

Should TP eventually cough-up, I will donate it to a railway charity.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice.

A very good result, and props to LNER for sorting it quite quickly and being able to grasp the issue in hand.
 

Hadders

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A very good result, and props to LNER for sorting it quite quickly and being able to grasp the issue in hand.

Probably helped by this thread and staff at LNER who read this forum :D
 

Iskra

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Probably helped by this thread and staff at LNER who read this forum :D

That may have something to do with it, but LNER as a company have always provided excellent customer service. Last year, I was severely delayed due to a lightning strike, I claimed delay repay and that was the matter resolved as far as I was concerned. A couple of weeks later they pro-actively emailed me (I didn’t contact them at all) apologising and offering me 2 free first class return tickets to anywhere on their network.

A company that appears to value its customers. I do spend quite a lot with them to be fair though.
 

_toommm_

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That may have something to do with it, but LNER as a company have always provided excellent customer service. Last year, I was severely delayed due to a lightning strike, I claimed delay repay and that was the matter resolved as far as I was concerned. A couple of weeks later they pro-actively emailed me (I didn’t contact them at all) apologising and offering me 2 free first class return tickets to anywhere on their network.

A company that appears to value its customers. I do spend quite a lot with them to be fair though.

I can only second that. I was caught up in one of the storms last year, and my delay repay was approved within 24 hours, and my RTV received within the week.
 

Iskra

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TP have replied:

Dear Iskra

Thank you for contacting us about your journey on 19 June. I was sorry to read about the problems that you experienced when travelling from Manchester Airport to Sheffield .

As your original ticket was unused you will need to return to the point of purchase for a refund, and unfortunately you wont be refunded on the price of the second ticket as the price is correct as it is a walk on ticket and not an advance like the first ticket.

For your information, their contact details are as follows:

Can't really argue with that.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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TP have replied:



Can't really argue with that.
They really seem to have missed the point - that it was their staff who acted in breach of contract by purporting you needed to pay an additional amount to travel in line with the ticket you'd already bought. Of course, whether you want to pursue it even though you've received a resolution from LNER is up to you, but I definitely think it's worth it - if nothing else to ensure that staff are given briefings on that this issue may occur. I daresay you can't be the only person who's encountered this problem.
 
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