Class 345 progress

theblackwatch · 20 Jun 2019

G_A_C_C_C said:
This might be a stupid question, and it might have already been covered.....but why are 345's being dragged form OOC for storage at Worksop? The depot space for all 70 units must be available as the line is supposed to be open - only issues with stations, signalling etc cause this to be delayed. So why isn't there enough space now? Where are these units to be kept when the line opens fully that isn't available now?

They'll be in service which means they won't all be on the depot all the time...

RailUK Forums

samuelmorris · 20 Jun 2019

theblackwatch said:
They'll be in service which means they won't all be on the depot all the time...

Are TfL planning to store some units in stations overnight when the service isn't operating? If not it shouldn't technically matter whether the service is running or not.

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
The existing 360s and 315s are also still in use, so not all the storage space is available.

360s are being stored in the heathrow express depot not the crossrail one. So shouldnt effect storage space.

swt_passenger · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
Are TfL planning to store some units in stations overnight when the service isn't operating? If not it shouldn't technically matter whether the service is running or not.

Plumstead sidings presumably won’t be in use yet, because they’re not accessible through the core yet, and surely Ilford will get some but is probably still holding significant numbers of TfL Rail trains yet to be off-leased. There’s also Maidenhead - are any berthed there yet?

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
Are TfL planning to store some units in stations overnight when the service isn't operating? If not it shouldn't technically matter whether the service is running or not.

They would last longer in a tunnel, protected from the elements and vandals than they would be in a siding.

gc1982 · 20 Jun 2019

Is there any reason why they can’t be shortened to 7 cars like some have already and used to replace the remaining 315’s? Will provide a capacity boost straight away... as the 315’s are really not enjoyable in the rush hour

kevin_roche · 20 Jun 2019

I posted this on the thread "Crossrail opening delayed until...." but I think it may be interesting here too.

The monthly report from Mark Wild is now on the TfL website:
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/florence-eshalomi-monthly-update-june-19.pdf

It has some news on the progress with testing trains

We have now commenced close-headway multi-train testing in the tunnels meaning that the distance between trains is only 50m. We will begin to progressively build the speed of the trains up to line speed and shift from doing this testing under driver control to under signalling control. Testing of converged software between Siemens and Bombardier has also commenced in the offsite Crossrail Integration Facility in Chippenham. This helps build confidence in the software before implementation in the tunnel environment which is expected in July. This will be an important milestone for us as it will allow us to test a greater level of functionality as well as allow Bombardier to commence critical assurance activities and help us build more certainty in our opening window.

We are working collaboratively with both Siemens and Bombardier to develop the software maturity that is essential if we are to achieve our aim of entry to full Trial Running early next year. So,whilst the start of close headway testing is an important milestone, significant work lies ahead for both ourselves and oursuppliers.

samuelmorris · 20 Jun 2019

matt_world2004 said:
360s are being stored in the heathrow express depot not the crossrail one. So shouldnt effect storage space.

The one that's going away?

gc1982 said:
Is there any reason why they can’t be shortened to 7 cars like some have already and used to replace the remaining 315’s? Will provide a capacity boost straight away... as the 315’s are really not enjoyable in the rush hour

Originally this was because they would all have to be instantly swapped for 9-cars when the tunnels opened and there were only so many units they could juggle at short notice. Lengthening the units again is not an instantaneous process.

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
The one that's going away?

At no point will class 360s be stored in the crossrail depot

theblackwatch · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
Are TfL planning to store some units in stations overnight when the service isn't operating? If not it shouldn't technically matter whether the service is running or not.

More likely sidings on the network. I'm surprised anyone thinks all the units will be returned to depot each night with lots of ECS mileage.

hwl · 20 Jun 2019

swt_passenger said:
Plumstead sidings presumably won’t be in use yet, because they’re not accessible through the core yet, and surely Ilford will get some but is probably still holding significant numbers of TfL Rail trains yet to be off-leased. There’s also Maidenhead - are any berthed there yet?

Plumstead not being available is one issues (about 6 units) and some more 315s than expected still being in used because of the delays including the LST platform works.

hwl · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
The one that's going away?

Originally this was because they would all have to be instantly swapped for 9-cars when the tunnels opened and there were only so many units they could juggle at short notice. Lengthening the units again is not an instantaneous process.

Indeed the total number of 9 car units required effectively overnight means there is no real reason to change the current number.
The revised phasing with 5a from this December makes the 7 to 9 car conversion process more problematic overall.

Many of the remaining 315s are leased for another 18 months

Beemax · 20 Jun 2019

swt_passenger said:
Plumstead sidings presumably won’t be in use yet, because they’re not accessible through the core yet, and surely Ilford will get some but is probably still holding significant numbers of TfL Rail trains yet to be off-leased. There’s also Maidenhead - are any berthed there yet?

There have been I think four berthed at Maidenhead for the last couple of months.

samuelmorris · 20 Jun 2019

matt_world2004 said:
At no point will class 360s be stored in the crossrail depot

Probably not, my point was though, isn't the Heathrow express depot being torn down for HS2, the main reason for replacing the 332s with 387s? In which case the 360s will have to be done away with by the time that work starts.

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
Probably not, my point was though, isn't the Heathrow express depot being torn down for HS2, the main reason for replacing the 332s with 387s? In which case the 360s will have to be done away with by the time that work starts.

Yeah, they will likely be done away with by december, but currently they are not taki g up depot space that can be used by Crossrail rolling stock. As ooc crossrail depot is operated by bombardier I dont think the class 360s can be stored there anyway. They also remain the property of heathrow express and drivers that drive them report to the hex depot. (Although are MTR employees =

samuelmorris · 20 Jun 2019

matt_world2004 said:
Yeah, they will likely be done away with by december, but currently they are not taki g up depot space that can be used by Crossrail rolling stock. As ooc crossrail depot is operated by bombardier I dont think the class 360s can be stored there anyway. They also remain the property of heathrow express and drivers that drive them report to the hex depot. (Although are MTR employees =

Oh I see, yes of course, they don't displace any 345s from being stored do they.

Isn't Ilford a Bombardier facility yet stores all manner of GA rolling stock? (At least for now)

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2019

samuelmorris said:
Oh I see, yes of course, they don't displace any 345s from being stored do they.

Isn't Ilford a Bombardier facility yet stores all manner of GA rolling stock? (At least for now)

I believe as part of their maintenance contract with tfl they also took on the maintenance of the class 315s and signed a similar contract with GA. I could be wrong.. the class 360s are still maintained by Siemens. The short notice nature of the 360s covering for the 345s probably means that they were probably not covered in the original contract

Islineclear3_1 · 20 Jun 2019

I haven't been following this thread but had my first ride on a 345 on the "Eastern" section this morning. Surprised to see so many 315's still knocking about...

EE Andy b1 · 20 Jun 2019

robert7111a said:
I haven't been following this thread but had my first ride on a 345 on the "Eastern" section this morning. Surprised to see so many 315's still knocking about...

Did it get the juices flowing, or was it just another commuter train? But newish!

Islineclear3_1 · 20 Jun 2019

EE Andy b1 said:
Did it get the juices flowing, or was it just another commuter train? But newish!

After 378s and 700s, no it didn't "get the juices going...t'was just another commuter train". But I was revisiting my old stamping ground and most of the stations were virtually unrecognisable from 20- 25 years ago... But I had the experience of a 345 going and a 315 return and guess which one was the cooler set...?

Islineclear3_1 · 20 Jun 2019

Is there a list on this thread of Class 345 entry to service dates please?

samuelmorris · 20 Jun 2019

robert7111a said:
I haven't been following this thread but had my first ride on a 345 on the "Eastern" section this morning. Surprised to see so many 315's still knocking about...

I believe it's about 60/40 315 to 345 in the peak, as stated earlier there can be no more until the tunnels open due to the restriction on how many 7-cars can be kept aside at once.

Peter Mugridge · 20 Jun 2019

Beemax said:
There have been I think four berthed at Maidenhead for the last couple of months.

That's correct; the nearest two to the main line are 345 026 and 345 045 but I haven't clocked the numbers on the far two yet.

700007 · 21 Jun 2019

The plan with storing trains once the full Elizabeth line is open, to my best understanding is all trains to either be in a siding or depot every night - no stabling at stations. Mostly is also where all the driver depots are:

Shenfield sidings
Gidea Park sidings
Ilford depot
Alderbrook carriage sidings (Ilford)
Plumstead sidings
Old Oak Common depot, which is the main hub for the Elizabeth line fleet
Maidenhead sidings

All of this *should* be able to host a full fleet of 70 class 345 trains at nine car length.

iphone76 · 22 Jun 2019

700007 said:
The plan with storing trains once the full Elizabeth line is open, to my best understanding is all trains to either be in a siding or depot every night - no stabling at stations. Mostly is also where all the driver depots are:

Shenfield sidings

Gidea Park sidings

Ilford depot

Alderbrook carriage sidings (Ilford)

Plumstead sidings

Old Oak Common depot, which is the main hub for the Elizabeth line fleet

Maidenhead sidings

All of this *should* be able to host a full fleet of 70 class 345 trains at nine car length.

The one I would query is Aldersbrook as I don't think 9 car units would fit there - certainly not without some work.

700007 · 22 Jun 2019

iphone76 said:
The one I would query is Aldersbrook as I don't think 9 car units would fit there - certainly not without some work.

Isn't work happening at Aldersbrook to lengthen this eventually to nine coaches, possibly by removing a siding or two or did I just imagine that?

hwl · 22 Jun 2019

700007 said:
Isn't work happening at Aldersbrook to lengthen this eventually to nine coaches, possibly by removing a siding or two or did I just imagine that?

I don't think both of us are imagining things!
Timing wise it is more useful to have as is to store more 7car 345s and 2x 315s hence works timing some what related to the 7/9 car change?

306024 · 22 Jun 2019

There are no plans to lengthen Aldersbrook CS, in fact it would be rather difficult, and simply isn't needed when 9 cars appear on the East.

Aldersbrook CS can only be accessed via the up main line through Ilford station. A signalled route from Forest Gate Jn would be more useful but expensive for the use it would get.

33021 · 22 Jun 2019

Surprised no one noticed the new 7 car yet ....

hwl · 22 Jun 2019

33021 said:
Surprised no one noticed the new 7 car yet ....

The one mentioned a few pages ago?

Class 345 progress

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member