• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Waterloo Station Upgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tio Terry

Member
Joined
2 May 2014
Messages
1,178
Location
Spain
swt_passenger said:
Oh I see. Yes, the orchestra pit is bridged over rather than rafted over, it’s quite a wide bridge which I take to be the main route out towards the concourse, and that bridge has been open and in use since summer 2017, although it had temporary side walls and a temporary roof initially. But going down the stairs at the platform end to the orchestra pit level itself isn’t really a main route to anywhere except the new toilets, yet. There’s also access from the mid platform area down two flights to the LU Bakerloo/Northern level, which corresponds to the P1-19 access to LU via the peak hours subway.
Lastly, and as you already mentioned, there is still the existing ability to get through from P20 to P19 and use the P18/19 barrier line alongside the LU escalators. That route has had a ramp added as well.

The station plan in image 4 of post #119 shows all the various stairs, ramps and lifts, as well as the bridge, but not the dedicated escape stairs towards the country end as the full platform length is not shown.

AIUI there is no specific requirement for “PRM capable” evacuation from the outer end of platforms, based on brand new builds such as Reading or London Bridge. Stairs is all you get.
Click to expand...

Without being Waterloo specific!

It all depends upon risk. If the far end of a platform is in free space, so not likely to find it's self engulfed in smoke, then it may be acceptable to the local Fire and Rescue Service to designate that area a refuge area. The idea being that anyone trapped there by, say, a train fire could expect to be rescued by the F&RS within 2 hrs. If there is no chance of getting to an area that is likely to be smoke free then different requirements apply, think London Underground new stations or Crossrail.

Network Rail take their responsibilities very seriously indeed and work well with their own Fire Officers and the local F&RS organisations so I'm sure they will have covered all that is required for Waterloo.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

G

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,027
swt_passenger said:
Guessing it possibly needs more rostered dispatch staff - and maybe they might not arrive until next week...
Click to expand...
Yes, all five platforms scheduled for all day use throughout the week from next week.

Undoubtedly the orchestra pit will still be in the same almost finished state it has been for the past few months.
 
P

paok

Member
Joined
3 May 2010
Messages
70
Orchestra Pit now open although lifts, escalators and toilets not in use when I came through in off peak so no real benefit yet.
 
G

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,027
All five platforms open as of this morning. However as mentioned above although the Orchestra Pit is open the toilets are closed and in fact the signage is blanked over so it doesn't appear to be a short term thing. Also the underground entrance is closed and the Underground roundel is covered over. The result is that loads of people were heading down the signposted stairs from the platforms and then milling around in the orchestra pit and having to go back upstairs.
 
G

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,027
Goldfish62 said:
All five platforms open as of this morning. However as mentioned above although the Orchestra Pit is open the toilets are closed and in fact the signage is blanked over so it doesn't appear to be a short term thing. Also the underground entrance is closed and the Underground roundel is covered over. The result is that loads of people were heading down the signposted stairs from the platforms and then milling around in the orchestra pit and having to go back upstairs.
Click to expand...
By the evening peak the orchestra pit was once again closed. Bit of an oversight by whoever had decided to open it in the first place!
 
S

SWT_USER

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
868
Location
Ashford Middx
Goldfish62 said:
By the evening peak the orchestra pit was once again closed. Bit of an oversight by whoever had decided to open it in the first place!
Click to expand...

Open again this morning although you still can't actually go anywhere once down the stairs!

They still seem to display random services on the departure boards on 20-24. Reading, Windsor and Addlestone (Weybridge) services are displayed, but Hounslow and Kingston loop trains are omitted which seems odd.
 
P

paok

Member
Joined
3 May 2010
Messages
70
SWT_USER said:
Open again this morning although you still can't actually go anywhere once down the stairs!

They still seem to display random services on the departure boards on 20-24. Reading, Windsor and Addlestone (Weybridge) services are displayed, but Hounslow and Kingston loop trains are omitted which seems odd.
Click to expand...

Once down the stairs you can go back on yourself to the escalators but think that's still longer than going via the concourse (assuming going to the Underground).

The displays have been missing services since the temporary opening last year. Can't understand why they haven't resolved that.
 
S

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,376
paok said:
Once down the stairs you can go back on yourself to the escalators but think that's still longer than going via the concourse (assuming going to the Underground)...
Click to expand...
Is the mid platform route down to the underground via the empty shopping centre in normal use now? Or peaks only?
 
S

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,376
paok said:
At least until the retail down there gets going. Saw a sign this morning saying afternoon/evening peak is 3.45pm to 8pm.
Click to expand...
Yes, I’ve posted before that I think the retail areas will only work properly if the routes are open all day.
 
D

deecee16

Member
Joined
30 Mar 2010
Messages
32
Location
West Sussex
Will any ticket machines be provided for platforms 21-24?
Currently anyone arriving via the Victory Arch entrance have to walk to the centre of the main concourse to get a ticket.
 
G

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,027
deecee16 said:
Will any ticket machines be provided for platforms 21-24?
Currently anyone arriving via the Victory Arch entrance have to walk to the centre of the main concourse to get a ticket.
Click to expand...
There are no machines there so far. Would be useful if there were.
 
G

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,027
As per later last week the escalators to the underground from P23 and 24 were closed in this morning's peak. The lift was also out of order.

What it showed was that the main gate line cannot cope with the volume of people in such circumstances, not helped by the fact that fitment of the overhead gate indicators was abandoned part-way through installation.

The orchestra pit tube entrance and toilets of course remain closed and there is no apparent sign of a workforce on site to finish this snail's-pace project.
 
Last edited:
ijmad

ijmad

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2016
Messages
1,810
Location
UK
B

Bigfoot

Member
Joined
2 Dec 2013
Messages
1,117
Whilst slightly off topic I wonder where in Waterloo the memorial will be placed?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48724128

Windrush memorial to be built at Waterloo station

The Empire Windrush ship brought West Indies immigrants to Britain from 1948
A monument honouring the "tremendous contribution" of the Windrush generation is to be erected in London.

Theresa May said the memorial, at Waterloo station, would be seen by "millions" of people every year.

The Windrush generation were workers who came to the UK from the Caribbean between 1948 and 1971. Many arrived on the HMT Empire Windrush ship.

Events are taking place across the country on Saturday to mark the first National Windrush Day.

The Windrush Commemoration Committee, set up by the government last year, will work with designers of the monument on the "next steps over the coming months".

Mrs May said: "This monument will be a lasting legacy to the tremendous contribution the Windrush generation and their children have made to our great country."

Baroness Floella Benjamin, chair of the Windrush Commemoration Committee, said: "Having a Windrush monument located at Waterloo Station where thousands of Windrush pioneers - including children like myself - first arrived in London, will be a symbolic link to our past as we celebrate our future."

Janice Irwin, from community group Ageless Teenagers, described the plans as "fantastic", but also "long overdue", and said it was "a little strange" that it would be built at Waterloo Station, and not Brixton where many people from the Windrush generation settled.

Many lost their right to work or get NHS treatment, while others were detained or deported.

The then Home Secretary Amber Rudd apologised last year for the deportation threats, calling the scandal "wrong" and "appalling".

An estimated 500,000 people now living in the UK have been called the Windrush generation.

The HMT Empire Windrush first arrived at Tilbury Docks, Essex, on 22 June 1948, bringing workers from Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and other islands, as a response to post-war labour shortages in the UK.
Click to expand...
 
S

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,001
ijmad said:
Plenty of space. If it were my decision, I'd put it in the centre of the orchestra pit, as it's not likely to get too cramped down there, and you'd be able to see it from both the ground floor level and the mezzanine.
Click to expand...

I wonder what at Waterloo, I thought Windrush docked at Tilbury?

There used to be a statue of a railway artist on the mid level looking down onto the old Eurostar check in, near the Victory steps, is that still there or has it been re-sighted.
 
T

Tio Terry

Member
Joined
2 May 2014
Messages
1,178
Location
Spain
STEVIEBOY1 said:
I wonder what at Waterloo, I thought Windrush docked at Tilbury?

There used to be a statue of a railway artist on the mid level looking down onto the old Eurostar check in, near the Victory steps, is that still there or has it been re-sighted.
Click to expand...

Terence Cuneo, now located in Brompton Barracks I believe.

Yes, the Windrush did dock at Tilbury but a lot of ships also docked at Southampton and their passengers came to London via Waterloo. I think there is a old film that shows them arriving in the BTF archives.
 
K

kev1974

Member
Joined
28 Nov 2017
Messages
53
Location
Ely
The orchestra pit is occasionally open these days, I'm not sure why, because there's nothing down there to see or go to; the new toilets are firmly barriered off, and the new exit doors down on that level are still closed as it's a building site right outside.

I'm not sure how successful the shops are going to be - if they ever manage to get them open - unless the passages they're on somehow become far more useful than they seem to be at the moment. Perhaps they're hoping this Time Out food market is going to be the thing that persuades people to take that route down there.

Until recently they would close off the 21-24 section after about 8 or 9pm, with just 20 staying in use later with access via 19. However, have noticed that my Windsor Line train almost always goes from platform 22 now, and all of 20-24 are in regular use, including right up to station closing.
 
G

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,027
kev1974 said:
The orchestra pit is occasionally open these days, I'm not sure why, because there's nothing down there to see or go to; the new toilets are firmly barriered off, and the new exit doors down on that level are still closed as it's a building site right outside.

I'm not sure how successful the shops are going to be - if they ever manage to get them open - unless the passages they're on somehow become far more useful than they seem to be at the moment. Perhaps they're hoping this Time Out food market is going to be the thing that persuades people to take that route down there.

Until recently they would close off the 21-24 section after about 8 or 9pm, with just 20 staying in use later with access via 19. However, have noticed that my Windsor Line train almost always goes from platform 22 now, and all of 20-24 are in regular use, including right up to station closing.
Click to expand...
All of 20-24 are in all day use throughout the week now.

The orchestra pit sometimes being open is very odd. When it is there's a security guard telling people to get out of it. Bizarre!
 
S

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,376
kev1974 said:
I'm not sure how successful the shops are going to be - if they ever manage to get them open - unless the passages they're on somehow become far more useful than they seem to be at the moment. Perhaps they're hoping this Time Out food market is going to be the thing that persuades people to take that route down there.
Click to expand...
I’m convinced the shops etc can only work fully if the routes to the underground are open whenever the station is open, and the additional street level entrances on the York Rd side are also fully open. As long as it’s a dead end or a major diversion for most of the day it’s going to be pretty useless for passing trade.
kev1974 said:
Until recently they would close off the 21-24 section after about 8 or 9pm, with just 20 staying in use later with access via 19. However, have noticed that my Windsor Line train almost always goes from platform 22 now, and all of 20-24 are in regular use, including right up to station closing.
Click to expand...
How recently was this? IIRC full use of 21-24 was only booked from the late May timetable change, having been delayed since Dec, however it seemed all platforms were theoretically available for use from Dec but only 3 were ever used normally.
 
Last edited:
D

DPWH

On Moderation
Joined
8 Sep 2016
Messages
244
If people won't walk past the shops can't you make them by closing off the shortcut?
 
K

kev1974

Member
Joined
28 Nov 2017
Messages
53
Location
Ely
swt_passenger said:
How recently was this? IIRC full use of 21-24 was only booked from the late May timetable change, having been delayed since Dec, however it seemed all platforms were theoretically available for use from Dec but only 3 were ever used normally.
Click to expand...

Just since the new timetable I'd say.
 
K

kev1974

Member
Joined
28 Nov 2017
Messages
53
Location
Ely
DPWH said:
If people won't walk past the shops can't you make them by closing off the shortcut?
Click to expand...

The "shortcut" would be the main concourse. The problem with the new orchestra pit shopping area as I see it, unless I'm massively misunderstanding the future station layout, is that the only people that will walk past them are a few making their way specifically from the Northern, Bakerloo and W&C tube lines up to platforms 20-24. And even then it will only be a subset because it's not the quickest ways, there are other established and easy ways to get from those tube lines to those mainline platforms. You can walk most of that route now, it's absolutely lovely and deserted, maybe it will change when lined with shops or restaurants.

Very few going to or from platforms 1-19, or to or from the Jubilee Line or buses, will ever have reason to go down into the orchestra pit area as far as I can see. Just like very few people other than those going to Waterloo East will ever bother going up the escalators to the balcony, although at least you can see that there are restaurants up there, from the main concourse.

Could Waterloo ever be the "destination place" for eating and drinking that they hope? Surely any Londoners or tourists specifically wanting food or drink would head for the excellent and cheap cafes of Lower Marsh right outside or the classier selection along The Cut, or those around the South Bank Centre, rather than the templated chain restaurants inside the station. Only times I've ever bothered to go up to the bars up on the balcony is when the trains are having a meltdown and I might as well sit it out with a beer until they get things running again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top