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Caledonian Sleeper

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Norther Monkey

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7 Aug 2011
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Obviously I'm speculating a little on the cause of today's failure but I do wonder what real advantages the seemingly unique braking, power and other systems bring that outweighs the complexity and consequent failures that are currently happening.
 
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RailUK Forums

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Essexman

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So the first day they get the stock back after the wheel problem and the train has to be terminated again.
 
S

Statto

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Really must have been bad as Acton Bridge is not a great station to terminate at, passengers would have had to wait until 07.32 for the next southbound train, & lucky as there are about 4 or 5 trains a day Monday to Saturday from there
 
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Essexman

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I'm booked to Glasgow on Tuesday night.
Now looking at daytime tickets and considering booking one now while there are still Advances available.
 
MylesHSG

MylesHSG

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3 Oct 2016
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Highlander stuck behind the broken Lowlander. Couldn't make this up could ya! The mk5's were clearly not ready for service, I wonder if TPE are having similar issues with their stock or if it's unique to the sleepers? Someone has dropped the ball, CAF, CS, TfS or a combination of them all.

There are 10 mk3's and 2 mk2's currently sat at Wembley. I wonder if they can be brought into action while these issues are properly sorted.

On the plus side the 92's seem to be behaving themselves recently after the fleet wide servicing they've had.
 
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Chrism20

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MylesHSG said:
Highlander stuck behind the broken Lowlander. Couldn't make this up could ya! The mk5's were clearly not ready for service, I wonder if TPE are having similar issues with their stock or if it's unique to the sleepers? Someone has dropped the ball, CAF, CS, TfS or a combination of them all.

There are 10 mk3's and 2 mk2's currently sat at Wembley. I wonder if they can be brought into action while these issues are properly sorted.

On the plus side the 92's seem to be behaving themselves recently after the fleet wide servicing they've had.
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The more worrying thing thing will be when are the heavy exams due on the stock that is still running?

As was mentioned earlier the stock that has already been scrapped was canned to remove the need for a huge bill for heavy maintenance/exams. The more and more the Highlander gets pushed back the nearer we get to the exam being due on that stock.

Re the TPE stock I suppose it will depend on what it is that's causing all the problems. If its technology or systems that will be exclusive to the sleeper stock thats causing all the problems they will probably be breathing a sigh of relief but if its something generic I'd imagine they will be pushing CAF for a fix as much as CS are
 
Kendalian

Kendalian

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30 Mar 2016
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249
Northbound Highlander will be about 45 late into Fort William so missed the Jacobite (again).
The CS delay repay team will be busy.

Agreed no way they should launch the MkVs on the Highlander in 2 weeks time. Unless of course their political masters say otherwise!
 
MylesHSG

MylesHSG

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Chrism20 said:
The more worrying thing thing will be when are the heavy exams due on the stock that is still running?

As was mentioned earlier the stock that has already been scrapped was canned to remove the need for a huge bill for heavy maintenance/exams. The more and more the Highlander gets pushed back the nearer we get to the exam being due on that stock.

Re the TPE stock I suppose it will depend on what it is that's causing all the problems. If its technology or systems that will be exclusive to the sleeper stock thats causing all the problems they will probably be breathing a sigh of relief but if its something generic I'd imagine they will be pushing CAF for a fix as much as CS are
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CS have been backed into a corner here. They might have no choice, but to use the new stock even if they aren't confident in it. The late delivery of the mk5's has certainly more impact if they have based their whole exam and maintenance schedule of the MK3 and 2's on an on-time delivery.
 
H

hwl

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Kendalian said:
Northbound Highlander will be about 45 late into Fort William so missed the Jacobite (again).
The CS delay repay team will be busy.

Agreed no way they should launch the MkVs on the Highlander in 2 weeks time. Unless of course their political masters say otherwise!
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Do they guarantee the connection with the Jacobite or are you having to claim consequential losses?

The politicans much be getting nervous, force the use of mk5s on the highlanders and take the flack when everything falls over even more or take the flack for not having the much promoted hotel service.

Hopefully the mk3/2 sets at Wembley /Polmadie don't have all the coaches on the exam mileage limits yet so some coaches can get swapped into the Highlander sets as needed.
 
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hwl

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Andy Pacer said:
Currently sat in Crewe having been terminated.
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Looks like they need to get some more of the mk5s in service so this week's "problem" set can get some proper attention rather than a rush job for the nth time.
 
Kendalian

Kendalian

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If you’re booked on the 1015 Jacobite it’s tough unfortunately. Delay repay should cover the losses but hardly the point!
 
MylesHSG

MylesHSG

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hwl said:
Looks like they need to get some more of the mk5s in service so this week's "problem" set can get some proper attention rather than a rush job for the nth time.
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Am I right in thinking it's the same set that failed last week?
 
BRX

BRX

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I know that some will disagree but I think CS should just pay up for the maintenance/exams required on the mk2/3s, so that the new stock is only introduced on the Highlander once it's properly ready, rather than being driven by the old stock's exam schedule. And if significant problems continue on the lowlander have a mk2/3 set spare to use on that as necessary. I know Serco are already losing loads of money - but that shouldn't be "our" problem - they messed up, either in their projections or in their management of the contracts with CAF. If it's ultimately CAF's fault then they can sort that out between them. Serco is a huge company with no shortage of capital. It's supposed to be one of the benefits of our privatised system that the franchisees take the financial risk. If things go well they profit, if things go wrong, they should bear the cost, not "us" (by "us" I mean both as users of the service and as contributors to the public purse). If Serco are running a massively substandard operation as a result of putting off shelling out for mk2/3 exams then effectively it is "us" who are bearing the cost.

If this would mean that they have to spend an amount of money that's disproportionate to the amount of time the mk2/3s continue in service then that is simply their problem, not ours.

The only other acceptable arrangement would be if they are somehow paying TS some sort of compensation in return for not providing a proper service as per their contract with them. I've not heard any word that anything like this is happening - or is it?

Regarding the comments about being pushed into rushing things by political pressures - perhaps that's part of the picture, but really, again it's Serco's problem. If they were not ready they should have resisted and taken whatever the consequences would have been. If those consequences had been financial penalties - so be it. Their problem. They signed the contract.

There may be complexities to this that I'm not aware of, that mean that what I say above doesn't make sense. Interested to hear what they are if so.
 
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Bald Rick

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BRX said:
The only other acceptable arrangement would be if they are somehow paying TS some sort of compensation in return for not providing a proper service as per their contract with them. I've not heard any word that anything like this is happening - or is it?
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Every train operator that is contracted to run a service (ie all franchises and concessions, but not Open Aceess) will have in their contract penalties to be paid to the service specified in the event that the service doesn’t run as planned. These will be for delays and cancellations; usually for those within the control of the TOC, but some contracts pick up all delays / cancellations. The specifics of each contract will be different of course. But be assured that TS will be receiving payment for each occasion that the sleeper is late or cancelled because of a Serco issue.

You won’t hear about it as it is commercially confidential, and also not in Transport Scotland’s interests to speak about it.
 
MrEd

MrEd

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587
side effect said:
Surely they won't introduced the mark 5s on the highlander next month now. Don't like the new stock.
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They would be mad to introduce Mk5s on the Highlander any time soon in the light of the difficulties they’re having with them. I wish they’d set a realistic introduction date in August or September which would actually be achievable. Yes some passengers may be disappointed to find they’re still on Mk3s but they’ll be far more disappointed to find themselves turfed off in Cheshire/on a bus/on a cramped day train after Mk5 failures. At least Mk3s offer a comfy bed for the night (and a Mk2 lounge car which serves the same menu as its Mk5 equivalent). I’m actually quite relieved that the Highlander will still be Mk3s when I use it next to go to Spean Bridge on July 3rd.
 
BRX

BRX

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Bald Rick said:
Every train operator that is contracted to run a service (ie all franchises and concessions, but not Open Aceess) will have in their contract penalties to be paid to the service specified in the event that the service doesn’t run as planned. These will be for delays and cancellations; usually for those within the control of the TOC, but some contracts pick up all delays / cancellations. The specifics of each contract will be different of course. But be assured that TS will be receiving payment for each occasion that the sleeper is late or cancelled because of a Serco issue.

You won’t hear about it as it is commercially confidential, and also not in Transport Scotland’s interests to speak about it.
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Will that include penalties for things like the seats being out of order, lounge not able to do hot food, etc?
 
B

Bald Rick

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BRX said:
Will that include penalties for things like the seats being out of order, lounge not able to do hot food, etc?
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Don’t know, it depends on what the contract says. Most contracts will have. Penalty for short formed stock (which the seating coach being out of order might count towards) is in most contracts. The most stringent contract I’ve seen is that for the London Overground.
 
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Essexman

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Does anyone here know the nature of last night's Lowlander fault and if it's likely to affect services next week?
No information from CS.
 
M

Mathew S

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option said:
is the 'operated by...' in great big letters all over the train, or in the platform displays, or mentioned in the announcements?
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Actually, yeah, the writing on the side of the train is pretty huge.
 
P

paddington

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19 Feb 2013
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I might possibly need to make a near last minute trip to Glasgow. The lowlander from Glasgow on Sunday 7th July would be ideal in terms of timetable for my return to London and CS would be my preferred mode of travel if everything was working fine, despite it probably being more expensive than a Glasgow hotel and early morning flight (haven't checked).

But reading about the problems and the delays, means I am not sure about booking. I am happy to accept some delay and get delay repay, but would prefer not to have to change to a replacement bus or wait at Acton Bridge etc. Would you be happy to book the CS at this stage?
 
EE Andy b1

EE Andy b1

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paddington said:
Would you be happy to book the CS at this stage?
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For me NOT a chance now!

Was looking at booking the Caledonian sleeper to Fort William late Summer/Autumn this year, but not now until CS has some sort of reliability with all amenities working.

Don't want to be stuck on a coach or a Class 156 for hours really either.

Such a shame as the stock looked promising, but something seriously not right with rolling stock from CAF at the moment. None of it works, YET!
 
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