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Trainline offering Network card discounts before 10am

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neil9327

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In the evening on last Monday I went onto the TrainLine.com website to purchase a return ticket from Basingstoke to Gatwick Airport, leaving that evening, and returning a week later at around 07:30am. I put the details into the search page, adding the fact that I have a network railcard.

From:
https://www.thetrainline.com/en/hel...ilcard-discount-has-been-included-in-the-fare
says regarding the use of railcards: "If you're eligible for a discount, it will automatically be applied to your booking when you select your ticket."

It came back with a return fare of £33.40 which sounded very reasonable.

When I went to book it, it said that a discount for the network card had been applied to both legs of the journey. While the outbound leg was OK, the return leg was before 10am on a weekday, and I didn't think the railcard was valid then.
So I went onto the chat function on the website to query it, and the person on there said both that the network card is not valid before 10am, but that Trainline is able to mix and match fares to get you the best deal, and that the ticket was valid for my journey.

I was still suspicious, but decided to go ahead with the purchase.
So I bought the ticket, receiving a confirmation email stating the return train booked at 07:37am on Tue 25th Jun.
I collected the ticket machine at Basingstoke station. Both tickets had written on them "With Network Railcard"

I showed the tickets to the chap in the ticket office at Basingstoke, and he agreed with me that at face value the return portion of the ticket does not appear to be valid and "guaranteed to" not open the gates at Gatwick.

When I got to the airport and had some time to spare, I emailed Trainline again with the query, because I wanted to get something in writing.
"I wonder whether you could clarify whether you nonetheless think the return portion of the ticket is valid on the service I specified in the booking, the 07:37 from Gatwick Airport on 25th June?"

After dodging the question once, I got the reply: "Under the reference number XXXXXXXXX, I see that you have booked an Anytime Return ticket for your journey. I have just checked and see that the tickets are booked using Network railcard discount and the tickets indeed valid to travel."


I strongly suspect that when I try to use the return portion, that the gates will refuse access, and gate staff will do the same.

Is the ticket valid for the 07:37am train I booked it for, or not? And what should be my next course of action to resolve?
If staff refuse access to the train, can I get that refusal in writing, so that I can prove to TrainLine or the courts that the ticket was not accepted?

BTW the problem is still there on the website - search for any evening trip from Basingstoke to Gatwick, returning early morning a week later, and the fare is there.

(dates slightly changed for anonymity).


Many thanks.
 
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cactustwirly

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It's not valid, but if you have a booked itinerary this should be the retailer's problem. However, realistically...

It is actually valid, because you have a valid itinerary allowing the use of a network discounted ticket, however it would not be valid if you didn't have the itinerary.
 

yorkie

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Is the ticket valid for the 07:37am train I booked it for, or not? And what should be my next course of action to resolve?
If staff refuse access to the train, can I get that refusal in writing, so that I can prove to TrainLine or the courts that the ticket was not accepted?
It's valid - but only in conjunction with the itinerary you were issued with. This is covered by contract and consumer laws.
 

infobleep

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It's valid - but only in conjunction with the itinerary you were issued with. This is covered by contract and consumer laws.
Just don't miss your return train as then it won't be valid. If that happened what would be their recourse of action?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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If that happened what would be their recourse of action?
What do you mean? If you miss the selected return service then I see no reason why you can't go on The Trainline and see what other services the same ticket as you hold is offered for.
 

robbeech

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What do you mean? If you miss the selected return service then I see no reason why you can't go on The Trainline and see what other services the same ticket as you hold is offered for.

And back in the real world you’ll be refused. As the ticket is not valid without the itinerary it stands to reason that it’s not valid on a different train without the itinerary. I appreciate it maybe should be but in reality you’re quite likely to encounter problems with your current ticket on your current train anyway.
 

infobleep

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And back in the real world you’ll be refused. As the ticket is not valid without the itinerary it stands to reason that it’s not valid on a different train without the itinerary. I appreciate it maybe should be but in reality you’re quite likely to encounter problems with your current ticket on your current train anyway.
This is exactly what I meant. If its not valid without an itinary.

I guess if you pull up an intinaey for a later journey it might be accepted. However you didn't buy your ticket for a later journey.

I know it's an any permitted but thr Network Rail Card isn't valid before 10am. Of course if one is so delayed it goes beyond 10am, no issue.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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This is exactly what I meant. If its not valid without an itinary.

I guess if you pull up an intinaey for a later journey it might be accepted. However you didn't buy your ticket for a later journey.

I know it's an any permitted but thr Network Rail Card isn't valid before 10am. Of course if one is so delayed it goes beyond 10am, no issue.
From a legal perspective, there can be no argument that the ticket is valid on the selected itinerary. And I think there can be no credible argument made against the ticket being invalid on another itinerary also offered for the same ticket by the same retailer, merely because you didn't purchase your ticket with that particular itinerary.
 

Bletchleyite

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From a legal perspective, there can be no argument that the ticket is valid on the selected itinerary. And I think there can be no credible argument made against the ticket being invalid on another itinerary also offered for the same ticket by the same retailer, merely because you didn't purchase your ticket with that particular itinerary.

There is, because there is no contract against consideration for such validity.

The validity only exists because the railway has, erroneously, signed such a contract by taking your money and issuing the itinerary in return for it.

The ticket is of course valid for any train after 10am.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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There is, because there is no contract against consideration for such validity.

The validity only exists because the railway has, erroneously, signed such a contract by taking your money and issuing the itinerary in return for it.

The ticket is of course valid for any train after 10am.
But it is not quite that simple. The website could well be seen as permission to board without a valid ticket under the NRCoT, Byelaws et al, if it suggests that the ticket you hold is valid on another itinerary before 10am.

Furthermore, it is clear when booking a flexible ticket that, if you are told at that point that the ticket is valid on any of the suggested itineraries (as Trainline does, showing the matrix of ticket type with itinerary), that is a contractual warranty that the ticket is valid on the suggested itineraries.

Don't get me wrong, it is a lot simpler to simply produce the booking confirmation, but one should not feel compelled to travel on the selected train, despite having a flexible ticket, in the case of an anomaly like this.
 

Adam Williams

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Furthermore, it is clear when booking a flexible ticket that, if you are told at that point that the ticket is valid on any of the suggested itineraries (as Trainline does, showing the matrix of ticket type with itinerary), that is a contractual warranty that the ticket is valid on the suggested itineraries.
I'd agree with this - and not just prior to purchase - I've seen this sort of feature after the booking has been made too, within the app. This was a while back but I remember being able to view past purchases and being explicitly told which other services were valid to travel on with the flexible ticket. A screenshot of this would seem pretty unambigous to me.
 

neil9327

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And back in the real world you’ll be refused. As the ticket is not valid without the itinerary it stands to reason that it’s not valid on a different train without the itinerary. I appreciate it maybe should be but in reality you’re quite likely to encounter problems with your current ticket on your current train anyway.

I suspect this is the reality.
I'm flying back in to Gatwick, and will be able to get the 07:37am train if my flight is not delayed. But if it is delayed I think I'll either wait until 10am, or buy a fresh new ticket on my own.

Thanks all for your replies - all makes sense.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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or buy a fresh new ticket on my own.
You may have no alternative but to do this even if you intend to travel on the selected service. Either way, if you are told you cannot use your ticket as per your contract, pay whatever fare it is purported you must additionally pay, and come back to us so we can help you recover it.
 

neil9327

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For completeness: I got to Gatwick this morning at 07:25am, and as expected the ticket was rejected by the gates. I showed it to the barrier staff, and they waved me through after no more than a quick glance at it.
Ticket was not checked on either train.
Arriving at Basingstoke at around 08:48 the ticket was accepted (and retained) by the exit gates.

So a whole lot of nothing happened lol.
 
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