Passenger finds himself on empty stock

RichardKing · 18 Jun 2019

I saw a tweet this morning to Southern Rail from a surprised passenger who found himself on a train that wasn't in service.

So @SouthernRailUK I'm so glad to have a service that don't wake up passengers by the trains final stop. Now currently somewhere travelling free on my very own chauffeured train #whereami #luxury #shocking #driveriscoolthough #southerntrains

Looking further into it, it seems that the passenger was travelling from the south coast into London Bridge, but fell asleep. He then ended up in the suburbs of London on a subsequent ECS move, with what must have been an equally surprised Driver letting him out at Tulse Hill.

This incident is quite confusing to me as whenever I arrive at a terminal station on a train that will head back out as ECS to depot/sidings, platform staff check each carriage (usually consisting of one walking inside the train, and another walking up the platform). For a station like London Bridge, this incident really is rather strange!

https://twitter.com/Mickyboi14111/status/1140875165880016896

RailUK Forums

trentside · 18 Jun 2019

It happens.

This is why we get regular reminders to check before dispatching ECS service or locking up trains to ensure there are no passengers onboard. That doesn’t mean it always happens though, but expect a chat with your manager if things go wrong.

Dr_Paul · 18 Jun 2019

This happened a couple of years back to someone on a Cannon Street to Slade Green train on which I was travelling; when it arrived at Slade Green I alighted and the train returned as ECS to Cannon Street. As it moved off, I noticed a woman on board who was fast asleep. Fortunately for her this was a rush-hour service and not one late at night which might have led to her ending up in the depot.

Years back, when empty stock was kept overnight at Waterloo, my dad was on a late service from Waterloo when a rather dishevelled bloke walked up the carriage and asked him where they were. He was one of the homeless blokes who used to frequent the Waterloo area and would try to kip on the empty stock, only he chose one that was still in service. My dad alighted at Richmond; what happened to this bloke is anyone's guess.

alxndr · 18 Jun 2019

I did this on the S-Bahn in Berlin, but to a much lesser extent. I was with a friend and didn't pay a huge amount of attention to the final destination, got on, and started chatting. It was only when we stopped shortly after passing through a station (I think Ostbahnhof) and looked around that we realised we were the only people in the carriage. She went off to check if the whole train was empty—it was—while I stayed and wondered what on earth I'd say if anyone came through as I don't speak a word of German.

Thankfully the driver was just changing ends and it wasn't too long until we were back in Ostbahnhof and could jump off and try again.

xotGD · 18 Jun 2019

I'm sure that plenty of enthusiasts have "accidentally" travelled on ecs moves. A good way to get an 08 in the book!

at60 · 22 Jun 2019

Happened to us in Portugal. Boarded a train in Monte Gordo on the algarve. Asked for tickets to Albufiera, which the guard happily sold us. Arrived at Faro en Route, train stops, everyone gets off. 2 minutes later, sets off again only to stop after a couple of minutes - in the depot.
After a good while a cleaner got on, who luckily for us spoke better English than our not very helpful guard, and after a good laugh she told us the train was due back in Faro station soon. So after 1/2 hr sat in the depot we shunted back to Faro station where we got off to funny looks all around.
We decided to abandon the rest of the trip and look round Faro town instead …

40fan · 23 Jun 2019

It happed to me in the late 1980s. A 142 arrived at Manchester Piccadilly platform 13 and a lot of people got off. I boarded and sat in the first coach. The driver came through while changing ends and asked where I was going, "Oxford Road," I said and he told me to stay on as his next passenger working was starting from there.

JoeGJ1984 · 23 Jun 2019

When a driver has to shunt the train to the opposite platform for the return working, do they have to check the train is empty? (I don't think they have to do this when just simply starting the next service from the same location as where it finished the previous service.)

Surreytraveller · 23 Jun 2019

JoeGJ1984 said:
When a driver has to shunt the train to the opposite platform for the return working, do they have to check the train is empty? (I don't think they have to do this when just simply starting the next service from the same location as where it finished the previous service.)

Depends on the location. Most stations would involve the platform staff or conductor walking through.

urbophile · 23 Jun 2019

In my capacity as the local vicar, I once had to conduct a funeral for a man who died on the train between Waterloo and Shepperton. Apparently he was travelling with a friend and 'fell asleep'; the friend got off the train and left him, while the corpse travelled several times up and down on that line, undisturbed by officious railway officials or anyone else it seems.

Surreytraveller · 23 Jun 2019

David Emmott said:
In my capacity as the local vicar, I once had to conduct a funeral for a man who died on the train between Waterloo and Shepperton. Apparently he was travelling with a friend and 'fell asleep'; the friend got off the train and left him, while the corpse travelled several times up and down on that line, undisturbed by officious railway officials or anyone else it seems.

That happens. If a train is staying in passenger service, then there's no reason for anyone to walk through it

Saperstein · 23 Jun 2019

JoeGJ1984 said:
When a driver has to shunt the train to the opposite platform for the return working, do they have to check the train is empty? (I don't think they have to do this when just simply starting the next service from the same location as where it finished the previous service.)

Not if it carries on in Passenger service no.

IME it trains usually terminate in the same platform they depart from on the next working, is there anywhere where this is not the case?

At some bigger stations they don’t advertise the platform until a few minutes before departure, don’t know why, then you get pax pelting down the ramps to the platform to board the train, (London Euston I’m looking at you!).

I normally suss out the inward working on RTT but of course it’s
Not infallible as platform bookings can change for any number of reasons.

Surreytraveller · 23 Jun 2019

Saperstein said:
Not if it carries on in Passenger service no.

IME it trains usually terminate in the same platform they depart from on the next working, is there anywhere where this is not the case?

Oxted, if a shuttle service is running on the Uckfield Line, trains will arrive on the Up platform then shunt to the Bay. I believe this is also one of the few locations where the guard gives a buzzer code to the driver, as the driver has to drive the train from the rear cab owing to being unable to change ends on Oxted Viaduct if the train is made up of more than one unit

Peter C · 23 Jun 2019

JoeGJ1984 said:
When a driver has to shunt the train to the opposite platform for the return working, do they have to check the train is empty? (I don't think they have to do this when just simply starting the next service from the same location as where it finished the previous service.)

I would assume that at Oxford someone would have to check the train before it went into the carriage sidings before forming a train back to Didcot. Never seen the driver do this, though.

-Peter

FGW_DID · 23 Jun 2019

Peter C said:
I would assume that at Oxford someone would have to check the train before it went into the carriage sidings before forming a train back to Didcot. Never seen the driver do this, though.

-Peter

Platform Staff will perform the check before the unit shunts to the Carriage Sidings, likewise at Didcot, staff will walk through the unit if it is shunting to Foxhall to return.

Peter C · 23 Jun 2019

FGW_DID said:
Platform Staff will perform the check before the unit shunts to the Carriage Sidings, likewise at Didcot, staff will walk through the unit if it is shunting to Foxhall to return.

Thought so. If someone did manage to stay on, would it be a big issue? I assume not, as the carriage sidings are really not a long way from the platforms. However, the units do spend a while there, so if someone was onboard, the driver would find them, and I assume that they would just stay on until the unit went back to the station?

-Peter

FGW_DID · 23 Jun 2019

Peter C said:
Thought so. If someone did manage to stay on, would it be a big issue? I assume not, as the carriage sidings are really not a long way from the platforms. However, the units do spend a while there, so if someone was onboard, the driver would find them, and I assume that they would just stay on until the unit went back to the station?

-Peter

There are procedures in place, but as Platform Staff you would be expecting a ‘little chat’ with your boss!

Peter C · 23 Jun 2019

FGW_DID said:
There are procedures in place, but as Platform Staff you would be expecting a ‘little chat’ with your boss!

Ha!
-Peter

Surreytraveller · 23 Jun 2019

Peter C said:
Thought so. If someone did manage to stay on, would it be a big issue? I assume not, as the carriage sidings are really not a long way from the platforms. However, the units do spend a while there, so if someone was onboard, the driver would find them, and I assume that they would just stay on until the unit went back to the station?

-Peter

Trouble is, the signalling will not be up to the standard required for passenger workings - the points used may not be locked, there may be no or very little overlap past a signal, the track in the sidings may not be maintained to the standard required for passenger trains. There will likely be permissive working allowed. The train may end up being left in the siding, with no safe walking route back to the station

High Dyke · 23 Jun 2019

JoeGJ1984 said:
When a driver has to shunt the train to the opposite platform for the return working, do they have to check the train is empty? (I don't think they have to do this when just simply starting the next service from the same location as where it finished the previous service.)

In a similar vein I did see the other day about a late start of a service at Newark Castle. The guard got off whilst the driver did the shunt from the Down to Up platform for the return trip to Matlock. However the level crossing failed at Newark Castle, in the down position, and the guard was now trapped on the wrong side of the line. :oops:

(There is no footbridge at this station, the only access between platforms is via the level crossing).

Peter C · 23 Jun 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Trouble is, the signalling will not be up to the standard required for passenger workings - the points used may not be locked, there may be no or very little overlap past a signal, the track in the sidings may not be maintained to the standard required for passenger trains. There will likely be permissive working allowed. The train may end up being left in the siding, with no safe walking route back to the station

I thought that would be the case.

-Peter

starlightEXPRESS · 23 Jun 2019

JoeGJ1984 said:
When a driver has to shunt the train to the opposite platform for the return working, do they have to check the train is empty? (I don't think they have to do this when just simply starting the next service from the same location as where it finished the previous service.)

I remember about ten years ago (maybe even fifteen), I was on a Southern service from Victoria to Dorking. There was a points failure at Epsom, which meant that a southbound departure from Platform 1 could not be routed directly onto the down line. So we were all turfed out at Epsom by the platform staff, then the train pulled forward ECS into the carriage sidings, then reversed back into Platform 2, whereupon we reboarded. Most of us sat in exactly the same seats to continue our journeys southwards again.

It seemed very strange to require everyone to alight, but apparently taking pax on board into the carriage sidings (even for an immediate reversal back into a station platform) was strictly forbidden.

londonteacher · 23 Jun 2019

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48739532

It just so happens that it occurs on a plane as well!

desmo · 24 Jun 2019

Back in the mid 80's I used to work for an engineering firm whose factory was at the back of Lincoln depot. For years, the lads on nightshift would blitz thru their work and then have a couple of hrs kip in the ECS that was stored at the side of the factory (it was easy to access thru some rather large windows), and then return to their machines an hour or so before the foreman came in at about 6. One day, it was decided to remove the stock, but nobody told the lads! This resulted in 8 of them suddenly finding themselves being spirited away to the old Doncaster depot, where I think the stock was held prior to being sent for scrap. The lads at Doncaster depot found it hilarious, and gave them a lift to the station. As I remember they ended back in Lincoln on the first passenger back, and proceeded to sneak round the back of the depot and climb back in, but by now the story was out and were met by some stern faced management and a lot of applause from the dayshift who were just coming in. Suspended for a week, and all the windows screwed shut!

Skimpot flyer · 24 Jun 2019

Saperstein said:
IME it trains usually terminate in the same platform they depart from on the next working, is there anywhere where this is not the case?
.

At Welwyn Garden City, the increase to 4 trains per hour on the WGC to Moorgate route on weekdays has led to some down arrivals arriving at Platform 4, then running empty via the flyover (to gain access to the up side) and shunting back into platform 1, to form a later up Moorgate service.

DarloRich · 24 Jun 2019

RichardKing said:
This incident is quite confusing to me as whenever I arrive at a terminal station on a train that will head back out as ECS to depot/sidings, platform staff check each carriage (usually consisting of one walking inside the train, and another walking up the platform). For a station like London Bridge, this incident really is rather strange!

it must happen form time to time all over the network. A small mistake no doubt.

delt1c · 24 Jun 2019

xotGD said:
I'm sure that plenty of enthusiasts have "accidentally" travelled on ecs moves. A good way to get an 08 in the book!

Remember back in the mid 70's, on a Sunday when main Edinburgh Glasgow was closed and trains diverted via Bathgate ( then freight only) Using the service and staying on at Queen St low level when the stock traveled west to use the cross over before returning East.

Grannyjoans · 24 Jun 2019

I drove an ECS with accidentally a passenger onboard once, and into a depot, it happens and it's not that rare

Mag_seven · 24 Jun 2019

Was there not a serious incident on London Underground a few years back where someone got overcarried on empty stock and was either injured or killed trying to move from one coach to the next?

Saperstein · 24 Jun 2019

Mag_seven said:
Was there not a serious incident on London Underground a few years back where someone got overcarried on empty stock and was either injured or killed trying to move from one coach to the next?

Quite some years ago now, it happened in the Kennington Loop of if it is the one I’m thinking about.

Passenger finds himself on empty stock

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