Chiltern Railways: good or not?

After years of poor health a recent improvement has enabled me to make lots of rail trips, also cheaper than a holiday! From Worthing on a Saturday I've been catching the 0542 to Victoria 0659 then 0810 (0740 please!) from Marylebone to Birmingham Moor St 1001. I've been very impressed with Chiltern, they don't make headlines but quietly get on with running a pretty fast and efficient service with decent trains and very good fares - Worcester or Shrewsbury with Railcard £38.50 for a Month's return.

Last Saturday 15/06 I came back from Worcester arr New Street 2009 and was going to take Cross Country to Banbury but that went delayed. So Moor St 2045 P1 which open data sites such as RealTimeTrains (RTT) showed as empty coaching stock (ECS) from Snow Hill, good number of people waiting ar 2041 when possibly a driver shouted across from P2 that it's on P4 where a late train had just arrived. We all trooped obediently and calmly over the bridge but were held from going down the platform until alighting passengers had cleared. It was front 4 of 8 and a tribute to passengers good behaviour that dep was only 2.5 minutes late soon recovered. I asked the TM what happened she said it's always P4 and had no idea why it was shown as P1 so possibly not Chilterns fault, all CH trains were STP and are again today 22/06, anybody know why?

Looking at a slightly early arr Marylebone but had to wait for a platform, shown as P3 driver announced it wa P6 and I think third train, even jogging it took 2 minutes to get to the Gates! I had 30min to get last but one train from Victoria to Worthing, the Underground gods smiled on me and I had almost 10 min to spare. One criticism is the service from Birmingham drops off a cliff after 2000 ,there's only one later train to London and that's so slow I'd miss the last Worthing. The XC left New St 14 late and was stuck behind us getting to 27L at Banbury but arr Southampton 1Early!

Chiltern Short Term Plan (STP) timetables are more often than not in connection with events at Wembley Stadium (WCX)

I think Chiltern are very good. Both the loco hauled and the 168s provide a comfortable seat and environment by modern standards.

Thanks Andy but don't see why it made a mess at Birmingham, I suspect it was given to the Planning Office Jnr as something they couldn't get wrong...

Today I thought for a change get 0740 Marylebone to Oxford then XC, it was briefly shown as P2 then disappeared finally far front 2 coaches P1 but that was displaying Gerrards Cross so told driver he was now Oxford he made hurried call and found his train was behind, crazy to make changes and not tell drivers! Eventually the correct driver appeared and said it was supposed to be P2 but it has failed, now they would be late as this was a suburban unit.

Robsignals said:

Thanks Andy but don't see why it made a mess at Birmingham, I suspect it was given to the Planning Office Jnr as something they couldn't get wrong...
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The WCX events cause more trains to stop there (including long distance) and additional short workings, it has an effect on their entire network hence everything being STP.

Robsignals said:

One criticism is the service from Birmingham drops off a cliff after 2000 ,there's only one later train to London and that's so slow I'd miss the last Worthing. The XC left New St 14 late and was stuck behind us getting to 27L at Banbury but arr Southampton 1Early!

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Agreed - the late evening/night service southbound from Birmingham is absolutely dismal compared to the northbound service from London. Even the notoriously early-finishing WCML with its long overnight possessions has fast services as late as 21:10 on a Saturday night. Meanwhile, the Chiltern line has its last fast service a whole hour earlier (and the WCML still has some services as late as 22:14).

It's disappointing that, despite Chiltern running certain services which would appear to be less than entirely profitable (e.g. they have previously said the West Midlands extensions to Kidderminster/Stourbridge are not that brilliant for them), they haven't improved in this area.

Robsignals said:

After years of poor health a recent improvement has enabled me to make lots of rail trips.

Last Saturday 15/06 I came back from Worcester arr New Street 2009 and was going to take Cross had 30min to get last but one train from Victoria to Worthing, the Underground gods smiled on me and I had almost 10 min to spare.

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Firstly, I'm glad to hear of your improvement.

Secondly, if Thursday/Friday/Saturday night you miss the last Worthing train, then you should continue to Brighton, where there are the N700 nightbuses to Worthing - it's saved my skin plenty of times!

It's odd that services from Snow Hill finish even earlier, the 2045 from Moor St is reasonably fast at 2 hours, ironically it calls at Wembley.

TrainBoy98 said:

Firstly, I'm glad to hear of your improvement.

Secondly, if Thursday/Friday/Saturday night you miss the last Worthing train, then you should continue to Brighton, where there are the N700 nightbuses to Worthing - it's saved my skin plenty of times!

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Thanks for your good wishes, yes I know about N700 I have a Disabled bus pass but don't think it works on that, so behaviour not too bad then?

If I had got the XC I would've had to break the routing and argued my case if necessary, should've just made a Reading to Gatwick which would've got me on the last train.

Robsignals said:

Thanks for your good wishes, yes I know about N700 I have a Disabled bus pass but don't think it works on that, so behaviour not too bad then?

If I had got the XC I would've had to break the routing and argued my case if necessary, should've just made a Reading to Gatwick which would've got me on the last train.

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It wouldn't work sadly, no, so it would be £4 for a single. Normally the service is quite quiet, the only one I've ever had a "rowdy" crowd on was the last bus (3:45am I believe) back from Brighton, because that's just after kicking out time.

Ah yes, I hadn't thought of the North Downs line, would've liked to be a fly on the wall when you were discussing routing with a guard!

Robsignals said:

After years of poor health a recent improvement has enabled me to make lots of rail trips, also cheaper than a holiday! From Worthing on a Saturday I've been catching the 0542 to Victoria 0659 then 0810 (0740 please!) from Marylebone to Birmingham Moor St 1001. I've been very impressed with Chiltern, they don't make headlines but quietly get on with running a pretty fast and efficient service with decent trains and very good fares - Worcester or Shrewsbury with Railcard £38.50 for a Month's return.

Last Saturday 15/06 I came back from Worcester arr New Street 2009 and was going to take Cross Country to Banbury but that went delayed. So Moor St 2045 P1 which RTT showed as ECS from Snow Hill, good number of people waiting ar 2041 when possibly a driver shouted across from P2 that it's on P4 where a late train had just arrived. We all trooped obediently and calmly over the bridge but were held from going down the platform until alighting passengers had cleared. It was front 4 of 8 and a tribute to passengers good behaviour that dep was only 2.5 minutes late soon recovered. I asked the TM what happened she said it's always P4 and had no idea why it was shown as P1 so possibly not Chilterns fault, all CH trains were STP and are again today 22/06, anybody know why?

Looking at a slightly early arr Marylebone but had to wait for a platform, shown as P3 driver announced it wa P6 and I think third train, even jogging it took 2 minutes to get to the Gates! I had 30min to get last but one train from Victoria to Worthing, the Underground gods smiled on me and I had almost 10 min to spare. One criticism is the service from Birmingham drops off a cliff after 2000 ,there's only one later train to London and that's so slow I'd miss the last Worthing. The XC left New St 14 late and was stuck behind us getting to 27L at Banbury but arr Southampton 1Early!

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The issue with Chiltern remains overcrowding. Things are okay if you get a decent length train, but this is still far from universal. Marylebone also seems disorganised at times, with last-minute boarding still common.

We had a one-way trip up to Warwick last Friday which to be fair was excellent, 7-car train going away from London in the morning so plenty of space. But the previous time we went up this way we turned up to a 2-car train, which was crush loaded to the extent we got off and waited for the next one.

On the most recent journey the train wasn’t too well turned out. Quite dusty and dirty, and lots of rattles both from the interior panels and from the engine.

I’d say Chiltern are okay, but in my experience (albeit occasional rather than every day) they’re certainly not perfect. For a London to Birmingham journey I’d definitely stick with VT. The infrastructure works which have been done are excellent for sure, and Chiltern deserve credit for their part in this, it’s just a shame that sometimes this is let down by the train service.

With the 0740 going to be late I switched back to the 0810 which is faster, going to Shrewsbury there's a choice of where to change, Moor St and Smethwick Galton Bridge looked good but I got to clever. Instead of waiting at Moor St I thought I'd change at Dorridge cross platform and the local can't start until after the CH leaves - it can though comes to a stop a few hundred metres beyond and I'm left on the platform .

Just for correctness, Chiltern Trains is or was a tour operator or travel agency; Chiltern Railways is the TOC.

TrainBoy98 said:

It wouldn't work sadly, no, so it would be £4 for a single. Normally the service is quite quiet, the only one I've ever had a "rowdy" crowd on was the last bus (3:45am I believe) back from Brighton, because that's just after kicking out time.

Ah yes, I hadn't thought of the North Downs line, would've liked to be a fly on the wall when you were discussing routing with a guard!

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The N700 gets to my local stop saving a 20 minute walk.

I have a Disabled Railcard and the vast majority of staff are very kind and hardly look at the ticket, wether it's out of a charitable instinct or due to bad experiences of getting nonsense at best or a meltdown at worst I don't know. Maybe they see all Railcard holders as 'professional passengers' who can be trusted to have a valid ticket.

A few Saturdays ago I was coming back via the North Downs line but it was seriously disrupted by a broken down train so I jumped on 2034 Reading to Basingstoke 2100 hoping for a Portsmouth train which was at, yes, 2100 and on time! Surely no point trying but we arrived 58.5 I ran like mad down the subway and just m.....

..ade it, possibly the TM saw me dep was 2100 on the dot, I couldn't ask him as I couldn't speak for a while, getting too old for this! He didn’t check tickets but a Southern OBS lady did, started to explain but she just said it's fine . Got home only 10min later, could've been quicker if the connections had been better and an hour earlier than waiting for the Gatwick or if I hadn't made that Portsmouth!

Dorridge very pleasant station a mix of GWR heritage and good modern design, see the Gents for example. Next train about 20 mins later, I'd been worried about how full the Aberystwyth & Pwllheli train would be so maybe for the best.

Went to New Street, these are my first visits since Grand Central and while it's impressively large it's very confusing and the signage is very poor. My train was on 4C but I didn't know it's a separate bay hidden away.

A pleasant day in Shropshire. RTT were showing the 2045 Moor St to Marylebone on P1 as last week, walked to Snow Hill to check - definitely no Chiltern train waiting but arriving Moor St 2030 the PIS was now giving P4 possibly helped by the incoming working being on time.

ForTheLoveOf said:

Agreed - the late evening/night service southbound from Birmingham is absolutely dismal compared to the northbound service from London. Even the notoriously early-finishing WCML with its long overnight possessions has fast services as late as 21:10 on a Saturday night. Meanwhile, the Chiltern line has its last fast service a whole hour earlier (and the WCML still has some services as late as 22:14).

It's disappointing that, despite Chiltern running certain services which would appear to be less than entirely profitable (e.g. they have previously said the West Midlands extensions to Kidderminster/Stourbridge are not that brilliant for them), they haven't improved in this area.

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Last fast service is 2045 from Moor St then 2118 is last and slow. Isn't their Depot at Stourbridge? It would be expensive to relocate so the extensions are really ECS moves carrying passengers with a bit of extra mileage to Kidderminster. Extra trains south in the evening would need early extra trains from London and a transfer of work from Birmingham to London, probably easier to not disturb the status quo!

bramling said:

The issue with Chiltern remains overcrowding. Things are okay if you get a decent length train, but this is still far from universal. Marylebone also seems disorganised at times, with last-minute boarding still common.

We had a one-way trip up to Warwick last Friday which to be fair was excellent, 7-car train going away from London in the morning so plenty of space. But the previous time we went up this way we turned up to a 2-car train, which was crush loaded to the extent we got off and waited for the next one.

On the most recent journey the train wasn’t too well turned out. Quite dusty and dirty, and lots of rattles both from the interior panels and from the engine.

I’d say Chiltern are okay, but in my experience (albeit occasional rather than every day) they’re certainly not perfect. For a London to Birmingham journey I’d definitely stick with VT. The infrastructure works which have been done are excellent for sure, and Chiltern deserve credit for their part in this, it’s just a shame that sometimes this is let down by the train service.

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No operator is perfect and all have to work with the infrastructure and trains they have though Chiltern are different in having a 25 year franchise which has allowed them to invest in redoubling, Oxford extension etc and I seem to remember they bought /leased some new trains early on, also they abolished First Class. Adrian Shooter was a career railwayman who made privatisation work for Chiltern, he must've retired now though maybe doing consultancy work. The franchise ends next year, who knows what the future holds. My biggest problem with them is Marylebone P4-6 are a ridiculously long way from the concourse but there's nothing realistically that can be done, doesn't help that all my trains so far have been on them!

Virgin are good benefiting from massive infrastructure spending but their fares are high. Yes cheap Advances can be hard but I don't like committing, I only make my trips if the weather's good and I really don't want to be tied to a single train so they're out.

pdeaves said:

Just for correctness, Chiltern Trains is or was a tour operator or travel agency; Chiltern Railways is the TOC.

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OK, pretty sure that in reality everyone refers to them as Chiltern Trains!

Chiltern Railways get a special mention for their service at Aylesbury Vale Parkway a few weeks ago when the clerk incorrectly took my licence plate down wrong and I've now received a £50 notice. Train service was great though.

Robsignals said:

OK, pretty sure that in reality everyone refers to them as Chiltern Trains!

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I've never heard them referred to of that outside of this thread.

221129 said:

I've never heard them referred to of that outside of this thread.

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The trains have 'Chiltern' all over them, I've not noticed it written on the track.

Gathursty said:

Chiltern Railways get a special mention for their service at Aylesbury Vale Parkway a few weeks ago when the clerk incorrectly took my licence plate down wrong and I've now received a £50 notice. Train service was great though.

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One persons human error, surprised they don't ask customers to write it down or key it in.

I used the Chiltern service to London earlier this year, first time for a while. To put things in context, I'm one of nature's 'cheapskates' and will always go for the lowest cost (walk-up) fare, even if the difference is just 50p. For many years, from Kidderminster to London, this was the 'slow' Euston service, so certainly during the period of the London Midland franchise and maybe before then, that was the way I went. However, since the fare increase last January, Chiltern now undercut the competition by a small amount, so it looks like I will be using them for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, my outward journey was in one of the push-pull sets (and naturally I sat in the rear coach with the big, throbbing beast right behind me!) and I came back on a 168, which personally I think has more comfortable seats. Getting on a train at Kidderminster and getting off it at London and vice versa is pretty cool, and at Marylebone that evening my service came up on the board more than 20 minutes before departure, so no scrum. And that particular service did Marylebone - Kidderminster in 2½ hours flat! Overall, I was well impressed.

Tips I can give are: bag an 'airline' seat so that you can stretch your legs, because the trains do fill up, and at Marylebone, turn up well before departure time (there are tables on the concourse outside the Victoria & Albert where you can sit with a pint and keep an eye on the departures board).

Andy Pacer said:

Chiltern STP timetables are more often than not in connection with events at WCX

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Having just worked out the code, I can now remember why I wasn't too keen on Chiltern, for Saturday travel, many years ago. But even so I'm looking forward to my next London trip!

When will a more frequent service to Stratford Upon Avon start from London?
Current service is so poor!

387star said:

When will a more frequent service to Stratford Upon Avon start from London?
Current service is so poor!

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Stratford upon Avon has just seen a substantial increase in through trains to London. But the limiting factor will, for now, be the single track section between Wilmcote and Hatton.

ForTheLoveOf said:

Stratford upon Avon has just seen a substantial increase in through trains to London. But the limiting factor will, for now, be the single track section between Wilmcote and Hatton.

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For now? For ever more like, its highly unlikely to ever have anything done to it.

387star said:

When will a more frequent service to Stratford Upon Avon start from London?
Current service is so poor!

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I do not think more services are really needed between Stratford and Leamington/London off-peak as when I used the service the other week it was quite quiet on board.

Robsignals said:

Adrian Shooter was a career railwayman who made privatisation work for Chiltern, he must've retired now though maybe doing consultancy work.

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Adrian Shooter is the brains behind Vivarail now.

ForTheLoveOf said:

Stratford upon Avon has just seen a substantial increase in through trains to London. But the limiting factor will, for now, be the single track section between Wilmcote and Hatton.

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Although the majority of the new through trains are two services turned into one, with a Banbury stopper extended to Stratford Upon Avon & vice versa, they get looped at Banbury.

I think Chiltern have been lucky that they were given a 20 year franchise in 2002 as it has meant that they have been able to invest in improvements while at the same time knowing they had a long time to get a return on investment.

Kite159 said:

Although the majority of the new through trains are two services turned into one, with a Banbury stopper extended to Stratford Upon Avon & vice versa, they get looped at Banbury.

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Correct - it's for the stereotypical "old granny" (or, here, perhaps more likely foreigners) market of people who don't want to change trains, even if it's quicker to do so.