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ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

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Chris217

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Etc,etc,etc.
That's probably the most accurate reply yet lol.
No-one is to blame then I take it.
As no-one wants to accept liability.

This is what I mean by interference.
 
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krus_aragon

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Etc,etc,etc.
That's probably the most accurate reply yet lol.
No-one is to blame then I take it.
As no-one wants to accept liability.

This is what I mean by interference.
My humble opinion is that the DfT's stubborness is to blame. (They've left the East Midlands franchise with an equally ludicrous timescale to get their PRM modifications done.)

With regard to the end-of-year deadline, I'm happier living in TfW's catchment area than Northern's, though.
 

sw1ller

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A good mate of mine at TfW Chester says
175s are indeed useless when compared to the 158s.
Couldn't even get rid of 175s if we tried he says.
Nobody would want them.
They are total rubbish.
So not just my opinion.
Loco hauled could run on the Marches through to Manchester but West Wales
bound service would be a challenge.
That's what happens when you inter-mingle 2 services into one to save money.
We never used to have Milford Haven to Manchester services back in the day.
Also,the non stop of operations of any unit working 20 odd hrs a day cannot be good.
As this seems to be the norm nowadays.
Run things into the ground comes to mind.
No wonder TfW are short of stock!
The PRM mods are a scandal.
If it was known years ago this work had to be done within the timeline set by those who made up this rule as law! Then why have mods started so late that it looks impossible to meet that deadline!
This is what happens when the railways are operated by office workers rather than actual railway men.
I bet most managers etc have never actually operated an actual train.
Probably don't even travel on them either!
It's the same on the buses.
Put someone in charge who hasn't got a clue! Who doesn't even know how to drive a bus!

What makes your friend say that 175s are useless. I prefer them more than a 158. Only thing I hate about them is no gangway door. Oh, and the cab aircon/heating.
 

Chris217

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Always seems to be 175s when things go wrong,he also says they are worked into the ground.
also my opinion of non gangwayed throughout on long distance is not a good idea.
As these are sometimes 2 sets coupled together and passengers cannot walk through from one set to another if it is overcrowded.
The one thing 158s win over the 175s.

2 or 3 car trains on such long routes are not suitable either unless the service frequency has been bumped up.
On the Marches line in particular should be 4 or 5 car or even more on peak hour services.
Given the stock shortages,I believe the above will never happen though as there is no real commitment by the TOC to find extra sets or carriages whilst they are short....which is right now!
Given the shortages and the planned cascade of trains later this year. These are only planned as a fleet replacement.
I'd say that TfW will still be short of stock until brand new trains arrive to supplement the existing fleet.
 

PHILIPE

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Oh right but i thought some of 175s would be in Carmarthen

There are 175s stuck in Carmarthen and trains worked by 150s starting at Cardiff. Somebody might ask why not move them but when Network Rail have carte blanche right to use the route for possessions you can't move overnight Saturday/Sunday. There would be no crews to move them anyway
 

craigybagel

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Always seems to be 175s when things go wrong,he also says they are worked into the ground.
also my opinion of non gangwayed throughout on long distance is not a good idea.
As these are sometimes 2 sets coupled together and passengers cannot walk through from one set to another if it is overcrowded.
The one thing 158s win over the 175s.

2 or 3 car trains on such long routes are not suitable either unless the service frequency has been bumped up.
On the Marches line in particular should be 4 or 5 car or even more on peak hour services.
Given the stock shortages,I believe the above will never happen though as there is no real commitment by the TOC to find extra sets or carriages whilst they are short....which is right now!
Given the shortages and the planned cascade of trains later this year. These are only planned as a fleet replacement.
I'd say that TfW will still be short of stock until brand new trains arrive to supplement the existing fleet.

I think 175s are useless cause there not reliable i mush prefer 158s
A good mate of mine at TfW Chester says
175s are indeed useless when compared to the 158s.
Couldn't even get rid of 175s if we tried he says.
Nobody would want them.
They are total rubbish.
So not just my opinion.

Take it from people like myself and Sw1ller who actually spend most of our working lives on 175s

What makes your friend say that 175s are useless. I prefer them more than a 158. Only thing I hate about them is no gangway door. Oh, and the cab aircon/heating.

Nothing at all wrong with them.

Loco hauled could run on the Marches through to Manchester but West Wales
bound service would be a challenge.

If you've got the time and money to carry out a lot of staff training, and also either lengthen some platforms or put an SDO system on the loco and stock, then maybe. Otherwise no, even running them to Manchester is a long way from "easy".

That's what happens when you inter-mingle 2 services into one to save money.
We never used to have Milford Haven to Manchester services back in the day.

Merging the two routes gives great efficiencies in terms of stock usage. You'd need a lot more units to run the same service if you split at Cardiff, as well as denying people through journey opportunities.

Also,the non stop of operations of any unit working 20 odd hrs a day cannot be good.
As this seems to be the norm nowadays.
Run things into the ground comes to mind.
No wonder TfW are short of stock!

Standard across the industry. And in any case, there aren't that many units doing those kind of diagrams, so none of them would be doing that every day.

The PRM mods are a scandal.
If it was known years ago this work had to be done within the timeline set by those who made up this rule as law! Then why have mods started so late that it looks impossible to meet that deadline!

Blame the DFT/Welsh Assembly for that. They were warned, but it was left to the franchise holder to fix the mess in a very short time.
 

Eccles1983

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158's are not anymore reliable as far as I recall, I have had them fail on me.

Big difference is when a 158 has a wobble I could get rescued by lots of other trains, even a trusty 142 could come and drag it away. A 175 goes bang and it's a world of pain unless another 175 is close by.
 

Sion John

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There are 175s stuck in Carmarthen and trains worked by 150s starting at Cardiff. Somebody might ask why not move them but when Network Rail have carte blanche right to use the route for possessions you can't move overnight Saturday/Sunday. There would be no crews to move them anyway
Oh that's true yeah on a Sunday i think they dump them in Carmarthen don't they thats silly
 

PHILIPE

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Oh that's true yeah on a Sunday i think they dump them in Carmarthen don't they thats silly

It's been explained to you why they are "dumped" at Carmarthen. It is not just for fun as what finishes up there Saturday night has to stay there
 

Cardiff123

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I'd say that TfW will still be short of stock until brand new trains arrive to supplement the existing fleet.

The brand new CAF & Stadler trains arriving between 2022-2024 are not supplementing the existing fleet, they are replacing it.
The entire legacy fleet of 150s/153s/158s/175s will be gone from Wales completely by 2024. (If the introduction of the new fleets go to plan)
 

Llanigraham

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Always seems to be 175s when things go wrong,he also says they are worked into the ground.
also my opinion of non gangwayed throughout on long distance is not a good idea.
As these are sometimes 2 sets coupled together and passengers cannot walk through from one set to another if it is overcrowded.
The one thing 158s win over the 175s.

2 or 3 car trains on such long routes are not suitable either unless the service frequency has been bumped up.
On the Marches line in particular should be 4 or 5 car or even more on peak hour services.
Given the stock shortages,I believe the above will never happen though as there is no real commitment by the TOC to find extra sets or carriages whilst they are short....which is right now!
Given the shortages and the planned cascade of trains later this year. These are only planned as a fleet replacement.
I'd say that TfW will still be short of stock until brand new trains arrive to supplement the existing fleet.

Err?? Why?? I regularly travel on the Marches south of Ludlow at "rush hour" and have never seen any train that crowded, and certainly in all the years I ran a Box on that line and was able to see into the trains I don't think I ever saw it either.
 

Sion John

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The brand new CAF & Stadler trains arriving between 2022-2024 are not supplementing the existing fleet, they are replacing it.
The entire legacy fleet of 150s/153s/158s/175s will be gone from Wales completely by 2024. (If the introduction of the new fleets go to plan)
But for new we have 5 GWRS 153s and soon 170s from greater angile
 

PHILIPE

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The brand new CAF & Stadler trains arriving between 2022-2024 are not supplementing the existing fleet, they are replacing it.
The entire legacy fleet of 150s/153s/158s/175s will be gone from Wales completely by 2024. (If the introduction of the new fleets go to plan)

That's right. TFWs "jam tomorrow" doesn't tell you that. When they also say that additional stock will be coming (if 769s ever do) this year they don't say that the Pacers will be leaving.
 

Rhydgaled

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Take it from people like myself and Sw1ller who actually spend most of our working lives on 175s

Nothing at all wrong with them.
Except for not having unit-end gangways. That and the current state of some of the seats (which need re-padding) are the only problems that I (as a passenger) have with a 175 when they're in full working order. I also saw a window which had misted up on a fairly recent journey (failed window seals?), but can't remember if that was a 175. The lack of gangways is why I think the 2-car 175s would be a good idea for the Conwy Valley and Heart of Wales lines, with the 3-car units used on fast S.W. Wales to Cardiff services via the Swansea District Line (non-stop from Port Talbot to Cardiff in part to keep passenger numbers down so that the 3-cars are enough).

Merging the two routes gives great efficiencies in terms of stock usage. You'd need a lot more units to run the same service if you split at Cardiff, as well as denying people through journey opportunities.
Spilting it at Swansea would make more sense; the big cities need the long trains, west of Swansea not so much. Also I expect the only major through journey flow that you break by spliting at Swansea is S.W. Wales to Cardiff which could be served by a new service more easily than Swansea to the marches flows.
 

sw1ller

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Misted windows are a bit of a problem on nearly all the 175s. I think it’s to do with the radiator but I’m not sure. They do need a makeover. But as a unit I like them. They’re not useless as has been suggested.
 

craigybagel

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Except for not having unit-end gangways. That and the current state of some of the seats (which need re-padding) are the only problems that I (as a passenger) have with a 175 when they're in full working order. I also saw a window which had misted up on a fairly recent journey (failed window seals?), but can't remember if that was a 175. The lack of gangways is why I think the 2-car 175s would be a good idea for the Conwy Valley and Heart of Wales lines, with the 3-car units used on fast S.W. Wales to Cardiff services via the Swansea District Line (non-stop from Port Talbot to Cardiff in part to keep passenger numbers down so that the 3-cars are enough).

Given how rarely they work in multiple (at present, it's one service a day on weekdays only) the lack of gangways is hardly an issue. If they were being used the same way as the 158s are obviously it would be a problem, but they're not. The other issues are nothing a much overdue refurb can't fix.

Spilting it at Swansea would make more sense; the big cities need the long trains, west of Swansea not so much. Also I expect the only major through journey flow that you break by spliting at Swansea is S.W. Wales to Cardiff which could be served by a new service more easily than Swansea to the marches flows.

Very true. TfW's plan to take off the 1st class units at Swansea and only send a smaller train onwards to West Wales I think is a very smart one, so long as the timetable proves robust enough for it to work.
 

craigybagel

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2 or 3 car trains on such long routes are not suitable either unless the service frequency has been bumped up.
On the Marches line in particular should be 4 or 5 car or even more on peak hour services.
Given the stock shortages,I believe the above will never happen though as there is no real commitment by the TOC to find extra sets or carriages whilst they are short....which is right now!

I forgot to comment on this part when I was contradicting most of Chris217's post. As I've pointed out many times, overcrowding on the Marches is vastly exaggerated. A couple of 4 car services in the peaks and 3 cars on everything would see 0 passengers standing outside of rugby days. 5 cars would carry fresh air around most of the time. Most of the issues on the route at present are when 2 car units substitute for 3 cars, or on special event days. Take that away, and it's really nowhere near as bad as people make out.
 

PHILIPE

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175007 will be out of action for a spell after hitting a tree on the line between Abergavenny and Hereford while working 1W15 1125 Milford Haven to Hereford this afternoon
 

Caaardiff

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Having read twitter the past few days, there was a broken down train in South Wales yesterday that was stranded, not sure what type of train though, and another today after hitting a tree (as mentioned above).
There are hardly any coupled up 175 diagrams, so it's not really needed having the gangway link.
158's mainly do the Cambrian which are usually 4 car with splits in mid wales. Meaning it's easier to move things around and short form if one fails, which is less noticeable as services run but with fewer carriages, they can also be coupled to 150's and 153. 175's can't be coupled to any other fleet type.
 

PHILIPE

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Having read twitter the past few days, there was a broken down train in South Wales yesterday that was stranded, not sure what type of train though, and another today after hitting a tree (as mentioned above).
There are hardly any coupled up 175 diagrams, so it's not really needed having the gangway link.
158's mainly do the Cambrian which are usually 4 car with splits in mid wales. Meaning it's easier to move things around and short form if one fails, which is less noticeable as services run but with fewer carriages, they can also be coupled to 150's and 153. 175's can't be coupled to any other fleet type.

158s can also couple up to Pacers
 

Jez

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That explains why the 1430 Manchester to Milford on a Sunday is a 175 in the summer timetable not the rest of the year as it starts its day in Carmarthen not Cardiff. I don't see why they just start more services from Carmarthen to Manchester earlier on Sundays. In the winter timetable the first service is around 1030am direct to Manchester, 5 hours later than the first train Monday-Saturday. Not having train crew seems a poor excuse.

I travelled on a 175 recently and was thinking how tired they are to be honest. No plug sockets, no trolley service, one of the toilets out of service, the other in a terrible state. Just overall a very poor service, no improvement since ATW were running the service. The sooner the 175s are replaced the better, I much prefer the 158s and its a pity they are tied to the Cambrian line as they are perfect for Cardiff-Manchester IMO.
 

Cletus

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I was on a very quiet 175/1 to Ebbw Vale on Wednesday morning, which seemed an over-allocation of resources. I passed a 2x153 going in the opposite direction, and caught a 150 back to Cardiff.
 

Llanigraham

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I travelled on a 175 recently and was thinking how tired they are to be honest. No plug sockets, no trolley service, one of the toilets out of service, the other in a terrible state. Just overall a very poor service, no improvement since ATW were running the service. The sooner the 175s are replaced the better, I much prefer the 158s and its a pity they are tied to the Cambrian line as they are perfect for Cardiff-Manchester IMO.

Funny, but the 175 I was on the week before last from Ludlow had trolley service.
 

Llanigraham

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In fact I cannot remember any journey I have made down the Marches this year where there hasn't been a trolley service, and they have all been on 175's
 
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