Platform lengths

py_megapixel · 23 Jun 2019

Is there any good public source of information about the platform lengths at UK National Rail stations? This information seems a little hard to find

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edit: I am more thinking in terms of how many carriages could fit realistically at each station on the most common units, given that some sections of platform are unusable, have a ridiculously large gap etc. and that door positioning varies.

RailUK Forums

coxxy · 23 Jun 2019

Sectional Appendix.

Joseph_Locke · 23 Jun 2019

Engineering Access Statement / TPR

Clip · 23 Jun 2019

Can the OP access those though which i think was the question

Lemmy99uk · 23 Jun 2019

coxxy said:
Sectional Appendix.

Although the lengths quoted can often be taken with a pinch of salt.

Joseph_Locke · 23 Jun 2019

... starting with the definition of "platform length" as issue number one!

pdeaves · 23 Jun 2019

Lemmy99uk said:
Although the lengths quoted can often be taken with a pinch of salt.

and not all parts of the Sectional Appendix show the lengths.

Mag_seven · 23 Jun 2019

Joseph_Locke said:
... starting with the definition of "platform length" as issue number one!

For me it was always "top of ramp" to "top of ramp".

Joseph_Locke · 23 Jun 2019

Mag_seven said:
For me it was always "top of ramp" to "top of ramp".

But what if the "starting" signal is too close to the top of the platform ramp for the driver to see it? Signal standback is a TOC-led dimension, and varies by traction, so how can NR publish a platform length?

You end up with:

"The distance, measured along the platform edge, from either the top of ramp (TOR), end of platform fence or centre of the post of any main signal at the departure end of the platform to the top of ramp or end of platform fence at the arrival end of the platform."

Mag_seven · 23 Jun 2019

Joseph_Locke said:
But what if the "starting" signal is too close to the top of the platform ramp for the driver to see it? Signal standback is a TOC-led dimension, and varies by traction, so how can NR publish a platform length?

Indeed and you can get bits of the top of ramp to top of ramp that are out of use. Thats why if any work to a platform is being considered (for longer trains for example) a location specific survey of the platform will be required.

Joseph_Locke · 23 Jun 2019

Mag_seven said:
Indeed and you can get bits of the top of ramp to top of ramp that are out of use. Thats why if any work to a platform is being considered (for longer trains for example) a location specific survey of the platform will be required.

Yes, but then the platform concerned would never be TOR to TOR; the SA/EAS are supposed to be accurate, and you're lucky if one is right, let alone if they agree ...

800002 · 23 Jun 2019

pdeaves said:
and not all parts of the Sectional Appendix show the lengths.

There be a table in each regions Sectional Appendix.

Does the OP want a particular station / region?

Also, incidentally, NESA is supposed to be the ultimate referece, which drives the input into the EAS/TPRs.

Joseph_Locke said:
But what if the "starting" signal is too close to the top of the platform ramp for the driver to see it? Signal standback is a TOC-led dimension, and varies by traction, so how can NR publish a platform length?

But Of course the TPRs are able to (and do) list operational capacity of platforms by specific operator / traction.

The Planner · 23 Jun 2019

800002 said:
Also, incidentally, NESA is supposed to be the ultimate referece, which drives the input into the EAS/TPRs.

It is supposed to be the baseline but its full of a lot of garbage. The TPRs aren't always driven by it, if it flags an issue then ive known colleagues go out with a wheel to measure it (and thats top of ramp to top of ramp)

Bevan Price · 23 Jun 2019

Joseph_Locke said:
Yes, but then the platform concerned would never be TOR to TOR; the SA/EAS are supposed to be accurate, and you're lucky if one is right, let alone if they agree ...

So you need a "useable" / "effective" platform length, discounting those parts infested by weeds, etc., and with no regular use?

Mag_seven · 23 Jun 2019

Bevan Price said:
So you need a "useable" / "effective" platform length, discounting those parts infested by weeds, etc., and with no regular use?

A detailed platform survey as well as giving the basic top of ramp to top of ramp measurement would also record things like usable length, position of signals, signs etc

800002 · 23 Jun 2019

The Planner said:
It is supposed to be the baseline but its full of a lot of garbage. The TPRs aren't always driven by it, if it flags an issue then ive known colleagues go out with a wheel to measure it (and thats top of ramp to top of ramp)

Presumably to get the useable meterage?

Although it is a tricky document to keep updated accurately - it does change more often than the TPRS are able to be.

800002 · 23 Jun 2019

Clip said:
Can the OP access those though which i think was the question

Sorry - missed this post while reading.... see below for link.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/

Highlandspring · 23 Jun 2019

800002 said:
There be a table in each regions Sectional Appendix.

Not in the Scotland Route SA there don’t be. To be honest I’ve always found the best way is to go out with the measuring wheel and chain it yourself.

800002 · 23 Jun 2019

Highlandspring said:
Not in the Scotland Route SA there don’t be. To be honest I’ve always found the best way is to go out with the measuring wheel and chain it yourself.

Sir is correct. May I proffer my apologies for stating a clearly held assumption that all SAs were equal in their contents.

Although it does strike me as more than slightly strange.

Although section 5.4 of the TPRs does hold the requisite information.

Joseph_Locke · 23 Jun 2019

800002 said:
Sir is correct. May I proffer my apologies for stating a clearly held assumption that all SAs were equal in their contents.

Not been in the industry long?

800002 · 23 Jun 2019

Joseph_Locke said:
Not been in the industry long?

Does one ask in response to my willingness to apologise or for holding the assumption regarding the SA?

Joseph_Locke · 23 Jun 2019

The SA bit.

No available records for the UK railway are consistent and correct. Miles aren't, bridges don't.

Nick Nation · 27 Jun 2019

The old Quail Maps showed the carriage capacity at each station - can be found at their renamed Track Maps site: https://www.trackmaps.co.uk/

I don't think I've worded this very well. Again....

Platform lengths

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